NHS Fife tries to silence nurse - Sandie Peggie vs NHS Fife Health Board and Dr Beth Upton - thread #43

[nauticant]

Sandie Peggie, a nurse at Victoria Hospital in Kirkcaldy (VH), has brought claims in the employment tribunal against her employer; Fife Health Board (the Board) and another employee, Dr B Upton. Ms Peggie’s claims are of sexual harassment, harassment related to a protected belief, indirect discrimination and victimisation. Dr Upton claims to be a transwoman, that is observed as male at birth but asserting a female gender identity.

The Employment Tribunal hearing started on Monday 3 February 2025 and was expected to last 2 weeks. However, after 2 weeks it was not complete and it adjourned part-heard. It resumed on 16 July and the last day of evidence had been intended to be 28 July with 2 days of submissions from counsel meaning that the hearing was to have ended on 30 July. However, it became apparent as the hearing progressed that this schedule wouldn't be followed.

The hearing commenced with Sandie Peggie giving evidence. Dr Beth Upton gave evidence from Thursday 6 February to Wednesday 12 February.

Access to view the hearing remotely was obtainable by sending an email request to [email protected] by 5pm on Wednesday 9 July. Detailed instructions were provided here:
drive.google.com/file/d/16-9POEZ7yHWUr6EmbfquJZO18Gv78bSm/view

The hearing is being live tweeted by x.com/tribunaltweets and there's additional information here: tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-005 and tribunaltweets.substack.com/p/peggie-vs-fife-health-board-and-dr-bd6. This also has threadreaderapp archives of live-tweeting of the sessions of the hearing for those who can't follow on Twitter, for example: archive.ph/WSSjg.

An alternative to Twitter is to use Nitter: nitter.net/tribunaltweets or nitter.poast.org/tribunaltweets

Links to previous threads #1 to #40 can be found in this thread: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379717-sandie-peggie-list-of-threads-covering-employment-tribunal-and-afterwards

Thread 41: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379334-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-41 24 July 2025 to 25 July 2025
Thread 42: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5379820-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-42 25 July 2025 to 25 July 2025

OK, we really need to stop talking about male pattern balding. I have a very high forehead and im getting self conscious!

I'm out early tomorrow and am not sure what time I'll be back. If I end up being a dirty stop-out it could be late. Since I can't predict how quickly you might fill up this thread I'm going to have to create continuation thread #44 now.

Now, there'll be a lovely brand new thread for people to pile in to but I'd ask you to resist posting on it until this one is full. Ending up with 2 threads running in parallel for over nearly 800 posts would not make for a great experience for people reading along later. Thanks.

Another indication of how the case is going is the single post with only a handful of comments on trans uk Reddit this week.

Sample of the insightful analysis: “IMO, Sex Matters realised big mistakes had been made at the discovery stage and that's why they've drummed up this much coverage.”

Perhaps this unfamiliar-to-me strategy of drawing as much attention as possible to the weaknesses in your case is behind some of JR’s interjections, such as those today drawing attention to the fact that the only rational explanation for the expert’s findings were that her client had lied.

I am happy to report that yesterday I personally rescued a bumble in distress . The bee was caught up in the fountains outside the Design Museum, and without any thought as to the waterproofness of my trainers ( luckily they were) I picked a leaf from a handy ladies mantle plant and rescued the exhausted creature from certain death.

Enjoy your very well deserved day out @nauticant

MF has previously posted select documents from the bundle to her twitter account, and I think each one has related to the issues that are expected to be explored with the next witnesses to take the stand.

On Monday we have two emergency nurse practitioners. One was Fiona Wishart who was in the CR on Christmas Eve. The other is Lindsey Nicoll, who I don't recall hearing about previously?

Then we have a day of submissions for each side. The letter was obviously added to the bundle for a reason, and MF seems to be giving us a clue that we're going to find out more next week.

Also, the evidence in the bundles has been agreed on, I believe?
So the examinations are about the significance?

Here's the continuation thread to be used once that one is full up:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womensrights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44

You know what you say to children on Chritmas Eve? Well, that's broadly the instruction I'm giving you now. No peeking until it's permiited.

Very biased report from bbc. Yet again!

Yes!
No mention that JB is a Forensic IT expert witness of 20 years standing.
Not just ANOTHER "IT manager" like NHS Fifes so called expert.

Honestly, the BBC make my blood boil.

If anyone is interested, here is a video from Jo Phoenix from yesterday talking about life after her Tribunal and this case bring it all back and the toll it takes even when you win.

@PetethePlumbersToolkit His first GMC registration shows that he was recorded as male at birth. He has obviously gone through male puberty, he doesnt have a dsd.

I hope tomorrow is something nice, Nauticant, because you deserve a Grand Day Out!

Inspired by this thread of threads I looked up the header for an email at work today. The meta data made no bloody sense at all. I salute all of you who understands this gibberish!

Pretty pretty please can no one post for the next two days? It's 21.41 and i've only just caught up. That's after skipping most of yesterday. i still have things undone from last weekend. Please take mercy on a poor weak female who will swoon convincingly before sobbing if thwarted.

I remember chatting to Prof Jo at FiLiA Glasgow, she was recovering from the stress but seemed still very upset. Quite rightly!

I can well imagine every time this all comes up, she, Maya , Allison, and anyone else whose been through this "the process is the punishment" , regardless if they took it to Tribunal, or not.

Feels utterly triggered.

Incidently I met a Pete the Builder Plumber today. He was nice and didn't go into the ladies' loo.

@nauticant your link is broken

Daytime eating and drinking @MarieDeGournay. A gathering that rarely happens these days.

There are 4 (four!) Sandie Peggie threads currently on the first page of Feminism: Sex and gender discussions!

Odd. Thanks for letting me know. Try this:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5380196-nhs-fife-tries-to-silence-nurse-sandie-peggie-vs-nhs-fife-health-board-and-dr-beth-upton-thread-44

Nauti, I noticed the number of posts on the new thread had gone up from 2 to 3 and I was about to berate the inconsideration disobedient disrespectful so-and-so who had posted on #44 when you CLEARLY AND SPECIFICALLY TOLD US NOT TO!!😡
Then I looked... and it was you

It was your usual post about Faye's case. I've just replied to a post by Faye and told her about our donations to say thank you for your thread-wrangling.
Which was good because I was wondering how I'd get in touch with her otherwise.
Sex Matters haven't replied to my email yet about their donations, I'll post it as soon as they do.

@viques I'm convinced there are other notes on that phone. He wasn't just taking notes on Sandie, she cannot have been the only person who was frosty to him.

it works. you may now go and enjoy yourself

If the NHS is anything like education in Scotland, it's a village. There's no way someone from one of the other hospitals wouldn't have had a coffee with someone from the Vic and given them a very discreet heads-up.

Been snowed under with work all day and just caught up!
Really interesting to catch up on the forensic witnesses today and the bizarre accusations by JR.
Anyone remember that perfume - Exclamation! Make a statement without saying a word!!

Feels apt here....
I feel the recap of today's events would've made loads more sense if we had sight of the bundle with the screenshots and reports in there. I am slightly aghast that image files (if I read correctly?) were accepted as the files used to determine version history?!

I can't even work out why DU would have (if he did) doctored the files? They aren't particularly damning as they are, and surely he could have just 'edited to add as I now recall....' rather than insisting they were all contemporaneous? I know the suspicion is that he re-egged them with the patient safety concerns etc but even that's been disputed and all a bit vague anyway, to my reading.

Anyway - we resume on Monday....

seen on Twitter/ x

If only NHS Fife had a head of human resources who could have stepped in to save taxpayers hundreds of thousands of pounds by resolving the Sandie Peggie/Dr Upton case before it reached court. It does, of course: David Miller, hired on a salary of up to £107,000 a year.