What does your partner think?

[Loopinlouie92]

I’m GC and my boyfriend is more on the fence about things. I think both of us are usually quite good at managing differences of opinion. But this means a lot to me and I’m finding it really hard not having his support. I feel that it is creating a gulf between us. Does your partner also have GC views or do they think differently about things?

Again, appealing to men's sexist attitudes to get them to agree with you does nothing for women's rights. If it's the only way you can cut through to some men, I'm not sure why you're trying to "get them" unless you want the support of a misogynist sexist.

It's not 'to get them to agree' it's to present them with the point in a way that they might understand.

I personally want as many people to understand the reality of what is happening to women's rights as possible, whether they are feminists, misogynists or somewhere in between.

Saying you should only argue with people who already think the same as you seems both pointless and very naive, and just polarises people into silos.

It's a new twist on the 'you're all right wing adjacent' nonsense.

No it's not, it's saying I don't see the point of getting a sexist misogynist to agree with me. For what exactly? When has women's rights relied on misogynists for support? It's not twisting adjacency to misogynists when you say "I'd like to have misogynists on board"

You're also not getting that man to agree with you either. You're just stooping to agree with them that a woman's place is to be fucked.

I don't believe that having sexist attitudes is a binary thing (you're welcome to disagree).

People have a range of opinions that could be described as 'raging Misogyny' at one end and ,I don't know, maybe 'extreme radical feminism' at the other. And everything in between.

The reason gender identity bs has taken the place of sex in life and society in the way it has is that for most people, it's gone under the radar.

If I can alert some blokes I know to the depths of the nuttery that is going on so that they can begin to challenge it in their sphere of influence, then I will do so.

I agree, a 'raging misogynist' is unlikely to campaign for women's rights. But there are plenty of blokes out there who are husbands and partners of my friends who are, I'm sad to say, mild to moderately sexist without even realising it. These guys would be aghast at men in women's sports and changing rooms and vocal about that.

So I'm not going to ignore their support on gender issues just because they don't pass your 'purity of thinking' test. That's really politically naive.

And who knows, finding out more about gender and its impact on the women they love may soften their views in other ways (unlikely but I live in hope).

You speak as though everyone in the world is either totally sexist or fully feminist and in my experience that's just not true. People are complicated and so are their attitudes.

It's not 'to get them to agree' it's to present them with the point in a way that they might understand.

Again, though, when you use this argument it sounds as though the point you are making is that someone's feelings towards someone is relevant to whether they're male or female.

If, as isn't actually that uncommon, a bloke did find a TW attractive, I would imagine they are probably far more likely to say 'OK, well they must be a woman in some sort of way, because I'm straight and I fancy them, and they're not properly a bloke are they?' rather than 'oh shit, perhaps I'm not straight'.

Agreed.

It's not something I go around saying a lot tbh, I was thinking more if it came up organically, with the guy saying something about how they're clearly not female and he's never fancy them, that sentiment could be capitalised on.

I agree it doesn't rwork the other way around.

You need people to agree if you want political action.

But in any case, the idea that it means they are sexist is inaccurate imo. It's just a way of showing someone that the socially acceptable words they are saying don't actually line up with what they are thinking and seeing inside their own minds. People don't always connect those dots themselves. If someone else does, a light-bulb can go on, "Ah, that's what she means..."

My husband is similar to your boyfriend, OP. He listens and I think some of it goes in, but he's very much on the left otherwise and wants to 'be kind' in general. We dont talk about it odten because we get very frustrated with each other. He's usually a very critical thinker but I think he's afraid of being on the 'wrong side' with this issue, and also perhaps doesn't see why it's so important. I think/hope one day he will get there.

Why do you keep bringing up this purity test thing because I don't want to simp to sexists and misogynists? You're welcome to, and I'm welcome to think it's pathetic behaviour for a feminist and not required.

Yeah as I said, I don't fancy the political support of misogynists, they've not exactly had the best political history with women's rights and if you have to reduce your women's rights argument to a sexist sentiment of "see, you don't want to fuck her- she's no woman!" Perhaps rethink your argument.

Do tell us what?

This is a key area of difference that lead to our separation. His identity is very much entwined with his leftist views and GC views are not acceptable on the left in the US. We have a daughter, so this acceptance of this BS is non-negotiable for me. As for me, GC views led to questioning other assumptions, which led to voting "the wrong way" in the US. It is all quite unsalvageable now, which is a shame for all of us.

The polarisation of politics in the US has now made its way to the U.K. No nuance allowed, I find it fascinating, frightening, and extremely sad.

So sorry that it led to your separation.

There's no need for childish name calling.

I bothered to reply to you in good faith.

You have just proved my point about the purity spiral thinking by telling me my 'behaviour' (point of view) is 'pathetic'.

There is more than one way to be a feminist, but I suggest that calling another woman 'pathetic' because she doesn't agree with you (and has taken time to bother to explain why), is not one of them.

Have you ever heard the phrase 'you catch more flies with honey than vinegar'?

Sorry to hear about your situation; that sounds very painful.

No I said simping to misogynists is pathetic, do you do that? If not, it's not your behaviour is it. Again nothing to do with agreeing with me but about lowering yourself to appeal to a sexist misogynist about their sexist view of women. Having them agree with you that those they don't want to fuck aren't women does little to benefit women's rights. You're not getting them "on side" you're just agreeing with them that there is a value to women they find fuckable. They're still not going to get "on side" with you about anything else to do with women's rights, particularly not for those women they perceive as ugly.

"Does your partner also have GC views or do they think differently about things?"

Sorry that I'm rather late to this. Like many others here, my DH is also definitely GC. In fact, he's brought a legal case against the Women's Institute on the basis of them accepting trans identifying men.