"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components" - Discuss

[dunBle]

To save further derailment of the Sandie Peggie tribunal threads with people debating Tandora's statements on the above theme, I've started this thread to point them to instead.

So where in the biological system is trans?

I have another question about this.

If one of your daughters said that she didn't feel safe getting changed with trans women, or, worse still, was sexually assaulted by one in a women's toilet, would you change your views at all?

30 plus years of research and they're unable to find it.

@MissScarletInTheBallroom absolutely, I was just wondering what Tandora thinks we are not getting 😀

I'm not going to engage with you further on this because it's ridiculous. Women with CAIS are born with XY chromosomes; that does not make it appropriate or acceptable or scientific to say that they are a "male" person.

I know. It's baffling.

and yet you can choose the sex of your baby with IVF.

@Tandora ?

And that

• You believe there is extensive research to support this view, but have yet to cite it or provide links. Is this right? Have I missed the links?

If one of your daughters said that she didn't feel safe getting changed with trans women

I would worry about what content she had been consuming online, and I would have a conversation with her about sex/gender/trans people.

So what would you actually say to her?

Specifically if she had been sexually assaulted, which presumably you wouldn't attempt to blame on her internet browsing history.

Baffling to you really? Do you not realise this applies to all kinds of things: being gay, having ASD, having dyslexia, need I go on?

I totally reject the idea that transwomen in changing rooms increases incidents of sexual assault. This is transphobia.

Not gonna lie, I'm disappointed @Tandora

I thought you had something to say

Nailed it. End of discussion 👍🏻

So, if your own daughter was raped in a women only space by a trans woman, you would...what...deny that she had been raped?

Or tell her it's just bad luck and could just as easily have happened if there had not been a person with a penis in the women's toilets?

I was really hoping @Tandora that you were going to respond to my attempts to understand your position.

But, you know, blanking just feels like going low.

I'm not interested in a broader conversation about who should have the right to use what toilet based on my opinion on that versus yours. It's not an interesting conversation, nor is it useful/ productive when there is still so much misunderstanding and prejudice directed at trans people.

It is interesting, though, isn't it, in this context? And necessary and urgent? We have, to give just one example, bodies like the Corporation of London prevaricating over who should be allowed into a 'Women's Pond' and leaving people hanging while they do.

As the parent of a gay, dyslexic, ASD child (who likely is also ADHD) and identifies as trans I can say with certainty that none of those things allows my child to infringe upon other people’s rights, safety and well-being because they feel like it and want to blame it on XYZ. And I wouldn’t support them if they demanded to be given carte blanche

DSDs are very rare exceptions. Some unfortunate individuals are born with six fingers on a hand, or a vestigial tail. That doesn’t alter the fact that humans have five fingers on each hand (well, four and a thumb) and no tail.

Because you don’t believe they are male?

If she was raped by any person in a toilet I would believe her and report that to to the police.

I totally reject the idea that transwomen in changing rooms increases incidents of sexual assault or rape. This is transphobia.

Over here, @Tandora !!

Your child is not infringing upon anyone rights by being trans and accepted and included as such.

@Tandora

Where in the biological system is trans, and why is a belief/feeling (which I'm going to assume you agree is caused by a series of neurones firing in the brain and nervous system) more important than the sexed body?

We separate women and men to help women avoid sexual assault and therefore unwanted pregnancy.

Given that transwomen can and have caused unwanted pregnancies, why should they be allowed in female only spaces?

Seconded, and many thanks for picking up my post.

I'm not sure I've ever had a more unhelpful response to a post than that's it's "unhelpful" and "no".

This is resembling an X spat about the usual disagreements. Changing rooms, sexual predators etc etc

Right off to do something else 🤷‍♀️