"Biological sex is a multidimensional variable with various components" - Discuss

[dunBle]

To save further derailment of the Sandie Peggie tribunal threads with people debating Tandora's statements on the above theme, I've started this thread to point them to instead.

You belueve men swinging their dicks around in female changing rooms, demanding to know why women present aren’t getting changed, doesnt compromise women’s privacy and safety?

@Tandora which bit is unhelpful?

Do you not agree with one of the statements?

@Tandora what do you feel we are misunderstanding about trans people?

@Tandora I did my best to summarise from the posts you've made and you are very welcome to amend. I do genuinely want to know what your overall argument is, and it's very important to set this out clearly and concisely otherwise lots of the posters are just attacking a straw woman. I think it's very reasonable to want to understand someone's position.

How do they know they have CAIS?

Fwiw all males produce some oestrogen.

So you don't believe that women have the right to say "no" to taking their clothes off in front of Beth Upton? Or having Beth Upton (who was a colleague at the time) standing at the business end during their gynaecological procedure?

Jesus Christ on a fucking bike.

The person who used the word "evil" was not wrong.

I can assure you that it's not normalised within the medical profession to believe that women with CAIS are appropriately labelled "male".

You are wrong. This is really harmful.

No

Hello!!!??? @Tandora ? Which bit is unhelpful?

Aha! Thank you. Which one?

This is feeling a bit like a parlour game....

It doesn't bloody matter, does it?

Women don't need to understand anything in particular about trans people. The only thing we need to understand is our own personal boundaries and legal rights, and how to ensure that those boundaries and rights are respected.

Good luck with that - you refuse to acknowledge what a man is.

Talk about getting things the wrong way round. The ‘current climate’ exists precisely because the proper ‘conversations’ didn’t happen before males were given carte blanche - whether they had a GRC or not - to colonise facilities which were specifically meant for women. In the case of women’s jails, the risk assessments were all about the safety and well-being of the males, not the women prisoners or afaik the staff.

set up an outrageous system and then punish women for being outraged? Same old misogyny in a different wrapper.

@Tandora is it the first one?

• You feel that probably most or all (not sure which) trans people have a medical reason for being trans. Is this right?

Either because they have had tests at birth or when puberty doesn't start as expected. Tests would reveal amongst other things that they have a male karyotype.

You still seem to be struggling with the idea that a karyotype and a person are not the same things - that the latter is not reducible to the former. No one is denying that women with CAIS have a male karyotype, that does not make it in anyway appropriate or acceptable to call the person "male". Nor is this type of labelling supported by science or medicine.

This one @Tandora?

Honestly I don't understand your statements.

What do you mean by "a medical reason"?

I mean not in their minds

the mind and the body are part of the same biological system

So you make no distinction between physical illnesses and mental health conditions?

I'll try again.

I mean a biological underpinning to transness which is tied to broader process of sex development.

Everyone whose studied philosophy shouts "category error", "category error!"...

No.
Medicine recognises that CAIS is a male genetic disorder. Peopld eith two X chromosomes cannot have CAIS - you need a Y chromosome and a faulty X chromosome for CAIS.

The harmful part comes with people such as yourself using DSDs as a tool to try to convince others that sex isn’t really a binary and men can be women if they really wish it so.

Have a good one.

Did their presence compromise the integrity of a single-sex space? Or are they female? And if so on what basis?

It's also not relevant to the discussion about trans people.

I note that you have come back to flogging this horse just after confirming that you don't think women have the right to say no to taking their clothes off in front of Beth Upton.