Islington Council slams 'botched' single sex spaces guidance

[IwantToRetire]

The council argues that the new guidance, which suggests that staff should check a person’s sex at birth before granting access to single-sex services or spaces, is unworkable and risks breaching individuals’ privacy and exposing them to harassment.

"Expecting reception staff in a busy leisure centre or a domestic violence service to determine whether someone is trans, without subjecting them to harassment or breaching their right to privacy, is not practical.

"It risks legal confusion and a culture of suspicion.

"That’s why we have called for the EHRC to pause this botched process – properly listening to trans communities – rather than simply causing further confusion."

Full article at https://www.times-series.co.uk/news/25283099.islington-council-slams-botched-single-sex-spaces-guidance/

We can tell.

Does it go spinny?

Your neovagina is not in the same location as an actual vagina. Even if you were to pull down your leggings (the skirts don’t hide anything) anyone familiar with anatomy can still tell.

sorry if I’ve cross posted NRTFT yet.

It Is obvious by someone’s gait whether they are male or female. No amount of swinging your hips can change the fact that a man’s pelvis is a different shape to a woman’s. That is before you thrown in all the other obvious markers.

Allowing Aida to bring this down to how to police what may or may not be under Aida's clothes is playing a rigged game.

Men(1) like Aida know perfectly well what sex they are and are perfectly capable of choosing not to abuse female spaces and opportunities, they just don't want to.

Emotionally no better than a bunch little boys sticking out their tongue and saying "make me".

(1) Sex based language used for clarity. No statement of gender should be read into this.

"Always existed"?

Proof please.

I did not know this. Are they further forward or further back?

@AidaP no one needs to prove they are cis. Most people aren't "cis" because most people don't embrace the stereotypes of their sex or give a moment's thought to their "gender identity" but it's as impossible to prove someone cis as it is to prove them trans (which are three reasons why it's inappropriate to refer to anyone as cis who hasn't identified themselves as such). All that is needed is a check for the presence or absence of a y-chromosome. 99.99999% of people know for certain whether or not they have a y-chromosome. Even those with disorders of sexual development will find out during the course of puberty.

We don't need separate "punitive measures" - using the wrong sex facilities that you have been told you are not welcome in will come under harassment and anti social behaviour sanctions. Even in the case of civil infractions, a court order can be granted that will make you in contempt of court and liable to imprisonment if you don't start complying.

Nobody is denying your existence or erasing you. The Goodwin ruling was quite correct in pointing out that trans people should have the right to marry, and they do. Nothing is being removed from that. Proportionate safeguards to ensure that your entirely legitimate right to dress and present and style yourself as you wish is upheld, and that you are protected from discrimination, whilst also ensuring that women's rights are not curtailed thereby, are already in place and need no adjustment, just a reassertion of what the limits actually are for those who misinterpreted them.

further forward. Due to keeping the external penile tissue connected to blood vessels.

they construct the cavity near the base of the penis, and due to the difference in angles of penis and vagina evolved over time to make them fit properly, that is not the same location as a vagina.

So yes, very visible difference in ‘longitudinal labia’ I guess we could say.

Sorry. A longitudinal difference in ‘labia’ position

Well that's far more information than I would ever need but others might find it useful in debates so thank you.

You'll just get some 'research' off Wiki and wholesale anachronistic rewriting of history which overlooks the fact that 'transgender' is a recent innovation. And there'll be something about Polynesian Third Sexes [note third; everyone knows their actual sex], Joan of Arc, Stonewall [the Bar and Riots, not the organisation], some Roman Emperor or another, Section 28 which had nothing to do with transgenderism], and [if the writer has no shame at all] a claim that the Nazis persecuted this marginalised group - a few decades before it came into being.

But who knows, maybe somebody will come up with something different...🙄

How could you possibly forget the non-binary Viking, you evil genocidal bigot??

😱

Or did you forget? . . . Are you in league with this French website, intent on erasing the lived deaded experience of non-binary Vikings??

Viking woman or non-binary? When woke “science” tears itself apart
https://decolonialisme.fr/en/Vikings-woman-or-non-binary-when-woke-science-is-torn-apart/

"The Account of Creation (maybe)...

1 In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth.[a] 2 The earth was formless and empty, and darkness covered the deep waters. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

3 Then God said, “Let there be Trans,” and there was Trans. 4 And God saw that the Trans was good. Then he separated the Trans from the Cis. 5 God called the Trans “TRSOH” and the Cis “Bigots.” "

The thing is, you know you are a trans woman, you know that you aren’t a genetic woman, you know that you are a man.

Why should the onus be on other people to have to remind you of your sex?

And if you know which sex you are you well know which changing room/ public toilet / hospital ward/ prison you should be using.

The fact that you think you can make a choice based on your fallacy not your phallus says more about you than it does about the people who are trying to abide by the law.

It has been said on this board before, but it is always worth repeating:

Everyone knows what sex they are, even the people who wish they were the opposite sex, people who have modified their bodies, and people who identify as non-binary. Decent people will follow the law and use the single-sex spaces for their actual sex, or unisex facilities where possible/appropriate.

I agree with Viques; Aida is revealing a lot about themself.

Aida is revealing a lot about themself

Not nearly as much as he would like to reveal, apparently, given the slightest excuse! ie. "Do I need to lift my skirt?"

I mean, "Let me in to the Ladies or I will expose my surgically modified genitals to everyone in the vicinity!" is top level perv, indecent exposure batshittery!

I thought that this exhibitionism was just a male thing then I saw the photos on Reddit yesterday from some poor deluded girl who had her breasts removed. On the other hand perhaps that proves it's a male thing or at least it's a testosterone thing.

Going bare-chested to expose double mastectomy scars seems to be a "rite of passage" for many of these girls/women.

"Going to the beach" in coastal areas of the UK seems to be the actual female equivalent of the fantasised male desire to be seen, "Lifting my skirt to expose my post-op genitalia".

It is "perverse" in similar way to male motivation but IMHO there is even more scope for psychopathy with women because it is socially acceptable for men to expose their chests in some public situations.

In the case of women, from observing narratives on social media, the attraction seems to be:

• subjecting onlookers to discomfort (psychopathic behaviour)
• then revelling in describing these reactions as "bigotry and transphobia" (sociopathic behaviour)
• thereby boosting both "victimhood" and "bravery" (secondary gains)
• alongside contradictory tales of enthusiastic acceptance and affirmation (self-deception, delusion?)

When did the trans community listen to women and our concerns? When did the trans community care about our rights?

apparently, in this world, there are rules for trans people and there are rules for everyone else.

Yes . It's all very duties owed to your betters but without any promises from priests about a reward in heaven, just threats to hit you. Fuck that, no. I do not owe labour, service, 'respect' or anything at all to a man with no respect whatsoever for me who wants to behave badly in a public space.

Please someone tell me when society decided that a persons sex was expected to be private? 99% of the public, the normal folk, have no problems at all with people knowing their sex. When did normal people start hiding their sex? They don’t, because 99% of the time humans can read someone’s obvious sex by visual queues like height, body structure, face, gait, and voice. Our brains are hardwired to know sex from the time we are born, particularly women whose safety depends on her brain being able to determine a strangers sex and thereby avoiding potential danger.

The only people who think sex should be private are the very same people trying to hide their sex and access private spaces or lie to men by stealth to get access to both. Each and everyone of them should be ashamed of themselves. One would think they would want to be honest about their sex considering they are always going on about how they are victimized by men. That wouldn’t happen if you were honest.

Real women don’t lie about their sex.

My sex is not private, it's on all my documents loud and proud: F, as per law and GRA 2004.

But you dislike following the law so you get mad about it and make stuff up like people "hiding" sex.

Oh well.

If you got a GRA to make your sex F then you are a loud and proud man.