Islington Council slams 'botched' single sex spaces guidance

[IwantToRetire]

The council argues that the new guidance, which suggests that staff should check a person’s sex at birth before granting access to single-sex services or spaces, is unworkable and risks breaching individuals’ privacy and exposing them to harassment.

"Expecting reception staff in a busy leisure centre or a domestic violence service to determine whether someone is trans, without subjecting them to harassment or breaching their right to privacy, is not practical.

"It risks legal confusion and a culture of suspicion.

"That’s why we have called for the EHRC to pause this botched process – properly listening to trans communities – rather than simply causing further confusion."

Full article at https://www.times-series.co.uk/news/25283099.islington-council-slams-botched-single-sex-spaces-guidance/

Yes much simpler to just not let women have any rights.

Bit transphobic, this fixed belief that men are going to deceive their way in everywhere and trample women: it's almost like if this population are honestly this anti social that legal penalties and criminal offenses are going to have to be created.

lol theyre like bloody children

it’s soooooo unfaaaairrr

the law is the law just bloody implement it

Can you explain how? Because as trans woman my documents state F. Do I need to lift my skirt? Or is this based on the "we can always tell" that gets tons of cis women misgendered on the regular?

This just highlights how important it is to have data integrity for official documents like passports and driving licences. The fact that these can be changed with little admin has always been bonkers.

So much easier and more kind to ask for an (accurate) passport as proof, nobody need lose any dignity, everyone is happy other than those intent on invading the spaces intended for the opposite sex.

All those fake documents need to be revoked. They should never have been issued in the first place.

People who know they are men need to use the gents.

It's really really simple.

Absolutely.

Just obey the law, it's not difficult

If sex and gender are different why does your passport need to say F?

It’s very simple. If you are biologically male, then you use the gents, no matter how you identify.

the Supreme Court made this very clear.

Has the EHRC suggested service providers should check everyone's birth certificate before they allow them access to the "bathroom"? I don't recall seeing that when I read the proposed guidance. What the proposal actually says is:
If it is necessary to ask a person’s birth sex, consideration should be given to whether it is reasonable and necessary to ask for evidence of birth sex. In many cases, it will be sufficient to simply ask an individual to confirm their birth sex. A service provider may make a rule that if someone is asked their birth sex and chooses to answer objectively falsely it will be grounds for exclusion from the service.

In the case of "bathrooms", you just sign that they are male and female and where any gender neutral facilities can be found and allow people to get on with it, getting involved only if there are violations. Just as services have done for decades without great difficulty.

Given the councillor's usage of the American "bathroom" to almost certainly refer to toilets, i would suggest she's listened to too much criticism of the proposed code off the Internet from a bunch of activists with poor reading comprehension or zero concern or knowledge about British law. She's supposed to be the head of inclusion and makes statements like this? She should be ashamed but she won't be, because she isn't actually interested in workable guidance that respects the law, she's interested in virtue signaling to her base and doesn't care that she's selling out her constituents and undermining democracy as she does it.

you know you’re male but you want to push your way into women’s spaces and you can’t be trusted to obey the law

got it

Men rarely get mis-sexed though.

This skirt lifting talk makes me vom in my mouth.

This feels like it needs a short history lesson.

Transgender people always existed, with varying level of recognition in the law depending on time and space, from annihilation to just another person. We managed to exist in either of those environments.

In UK, even in depth of section 28, we continued to exist and live in out transition just fine, the only variable is amount of harassment we have to endure that's endorsed by the law.

And you think that completely unenforceable law (under which it's impossible to prove that you are cis btw), with no punitive measures, is going to somehow make transgender people to decide "yep, you right, we will give in to the few loud transphobes and stop existing as ourselves?"

You live in lala land, not reality, if you think that.

And the law on top of everything is temporary, the reading you want of FWS puts us entirely in the same position which resulted in Goodwin, and creation of trans rights. Except now there is even more precedence in ECHR for us.

See ya in the loos that apparently bother you so much.

Is it a ra ra skirt?

Yes yes we get it, you’re an entitled man who is going to continue to stomp all over women’s spaces and break the law

you do our work for us

Or even a tra tra skirt?

I hear the stamping of big feet.

Every time I see a post like this it persuades me even more that the GRA needs to be scrapped. I started off thinking that maybe we could keep it with some sensible and necessary revisions but that was quite a while ago now.

As a trans woman you know your biological sex is and always was male.

If you take it on yourself to enter spaces, or use resources, reserved for biologically female people, you may not always be challenged.

That does not make it ok to deceive women and appropriate our resources.

Whether women always know or not, you always know. You always have the choice to treat women-only - which the SC confirmed means female-only - spaces with respect.

Every trans woman who, like you, knows this yet still considers what he wants from women to be more important than what we want for ourselves is demonstrating exactly why we are right to say no to you.

Women have all the experience in the world of men who believe if they can argue a logical case for our consent, or for why our boundaries are invalid, we are required to agree and acquiesce.

Those men fundamentally misunderstand their position.

Women are the sovereigns of our own bodies and our own boundaries. Our lack of consent is not a theoretical proposition you can argue away. It is our own to give or not and you have no moral power or right to compel it.

Only the most craven misogynist would consider his obligation to respect the consent of women depends on his accepting they have a valid case to withdraw it.

i expect aida/the monitors to report us for being big meanies and this thread to be zapped very soon

To a point I do indeed, as despite transphobic government and FWS, transgender people continue to live happy lives in the real world, with massive support from the population showing at the rallies, protests, parades and so on, while transphobes keep hiding their views due to backlash and alienation, and still cannot crack 100 person rally, something we get at a 2 day notice counter-protest, and it's mostly cis people there.

And all that while under constant barrage of anti-trans mass media on top.

Very big feet indeed! And trans tums.

Thanks for confirming you don’t give a fuck about women and our rights, dignity & privacy Aida but then we knew that