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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why is anti-trans so important?

509 replies

Elizabethbd · 24/06/2025 11:48

So, I will preface this with saying that I’m not in the UK, and my country does not yet have the kind of anti-trans debate as there is in the English speaking world.

So, I have a hard time understanding why this is such an important question to many women.

Surely there are women’s issues that affect a larger part of society.

I’m thinking rape and violence towards women, homelesness, sex trafficking and honour killings. Why are these issues not more important and worthy of attention, as they affect so many more women than those who come into contact with trans women (or men)?

OP posts:
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JFDIYOLO · 25/06/2025 00:33

All the things you mention have one thing in common - they are all done in full knowledge of what women are.

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:34

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:22

What is truly ignorant is you not having heard of self-ID. Most transwomen do not have any surgery or do anything. The most they do, they absolute most - is dress like a woman.

And even if they did, that trumps the rights of RAPE SURVIVORS like me, @deadpantrashcan , to female only safe single sex spaces? Because their feels are more important than my needs and rights and the needs and rights of the oppressed sex? Such an ignorant and honestly stupid myopic and misogynistic outlook.

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about.

So rude. Other people can state their opinion without being told they don't know what they're talking about. Instead why not show some stats that show most trans women do nothing, don't take hormones or do anything else medically? That might show you know what you're talking about

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:34

deadpantrashcan · 24/06/2025 19:34

What? Ok, so we’ve established that Eddie is a crossdresser? Forgive me, I thought we were talking about trans folk, the ones who have removed their penis etc. I didn’t realise folk that did that acted as a different sex for only half the day.

Newsflash, @deadpantrashcan , almost none of them remove their penis.

That's the point.

I guess you didn't know that though... ?

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:36

Eolhc1990 · 24/06/2025 20:03

Do you understand statistics? There is no statistic on what percentage of trans women are convicted of sexual crime.
Your point only makes sense if you take all 3 from a prison.
Considering Cis men commit 98% of sexual crime, cis women 2% do even if the entire population of trans people were sexual convicts they still only make up 0.3% of people so it's going to be significantly lower than men or women.

Do you understand statistics? Do you understand what per capita means?

FlirtsWithRhinos · 25/06/2025 00:40

And aside from all the frothing about "bathrooms" and "they just want to pee"...

Female people exist. We aren't a bloodless sexless concept for expressing your inner self, we are real, embodied humans. We are half of humanity. And our bodies have consequences. They have physical consequences in where we are, overall, stronger and where we are, overall, weaker than men, and they have social consequences. Oh god, how they have social consequences. People like us are infantilised, patronised, fetishised, marginalised, exploited, abused, riciculed and dismissed because of our bodies and because of the higher burden of childcare and above all because of what society encodes on top of those things. Not all of us all of the time, but all of us some of the time and that fucking matters.

And so, after decades, centuries, of writing, and explaining, and researching, and explaining, and protesting, and explaining, and voting, and explaining, and apealling, and explaining, we got to the point where society broadly accepted we had, by and large, not been treated fairly and often still were not, and we had women-only spaces that sometimes are there to keep us safe or stop men imposing their sexual agression and entitlement on our bodies but often just give us space to remember who we are when we are not constantly having to fight encroaching, overtalking, overbearing men just to be seen and heard, and to talk to each other and recognise our own experiences in other women without being mediated and devalued and explained away by men.

And we had the understanding that if sometimes we need to be touched for care, or treatment, or security, we might prefer those hands to be another woman's because our relationship with our bodies and the touch of men is complicated by the knowledge of how men fetishise and fantasise about our bodies, and if sometimes we need to be supported or counseled and make ourselves vulnerable, we might prefer that to be with women only because our experiences with men and their ability to dominate us through physical, social or economic power can prevent us feeling safe with even the nicest of them.

And we had women only opportunities for us to reach our potential, whether in sports where even the best of us would otherwise by overshadowed by the default additional strength and power of men, or in culture, education and professions where training and networks focussed on women allowed us to support and mentor each other and escape the unconscious biases that obscure our abilities.

And these things fucking matter, and they are important and needed not because we feel like women on the inside but because being female bodied in this world has consequences

So it's not ok to decide some men are somehow, in some effable way, inside their male bodies just like us and have the same needs for these things and therefore a right to have them. Because whatever a trans woman feels about himself in his own head, out here in our reality, to the women in the spaces and opportunities he wants to impose himself into, when he plays sports his body is still a man's body , when he looks at us it's still a mans eyes looking, when he touches us it's still a man's hands touching us, when he talks over us and reshapes our experiences in a way that he prefers them to be, it's just a man doing the same thing men have done to us all our lives.

And I don't understand why these men, these "trans women", are so very important that we are supposed to throw away all this, all these things that are there for female people to deal with the consequences of being female, which is something trans women simply are not and can never be, challanges they simply do not have, for no other reason than because trans women apparently cannot accept that female people exist and have embodied and sex based needs that are nothing to do with the trans woman's personal experience of unbodied sexless "womanhood".

Boiledbeetle · 25/06/2025 00:40

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:34

So rude. Other people can state their opinion without being told they don't know what they're talking about. Instead why not show some stats that show most trans women do nothing, don't take hormones or do anything else medically? That might show you know what you're talking about

Ha!

The poster Feisty is responding to had just called me ignorant and stupid. If she didn't want calling out in return maybe she should have chosen her words more carefully to begin with!

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:41

BeeSouriante · 24/06/2025 20:11

I mean, you're on one of the better-known anti-trans forums - you only have to glance to see how much interest in actual issues that affect women and girls. Hell, the huge vote and win to decriminalise abortion wasn't even mentioned on here until hours afterwards..and the 'feminism chat' is pretty dead.

Fact is that successive governments and the right wing media are very happy with trans moral panic as they can pretend that they're actually helping women, whilst the same issues over rape/DV convictions, over hormonal care, over childcare, child sexualisation etc etc remain..or in some cases have gotten worse.

It's honestly depressing and without our government having a pikachu moment, it's only going to get worse.

You're another one that is too cowardly to return to their own thread they make.

You represent the worst of misogyny. Attempting to tell women, and rape survivors like me, what our priorities should be. Scolding us for not wanting males to take our spaces, our sports, our facilities. Because you think a male in a dress is suddenly no threat. Stranger Danger exists because of people with your mindset. Thankfully, you're losing the war.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:43

Eolhc1990 · 24/06/2025 20:19

Uh.... Because men are 50% of the population and commit 98% of the sexual crimes therefore they are the biggest threat to me.

Transwomen are men. And are a far greater threat than other men because they hide in plain sight.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:44

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:34

So rude. Other people can state their opinion without being told they don't know what they're talking about. Instead why not show some stats that show most trans women do nothing, don't take hormones or do anything else medically? That might show you know what you're talking about

So you ignore that poster calling people ignorant, but pounce on me when I return it back? That's disingenuous.

And I did post stats already further up in the thread.

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:46

Boiledbeetle · 25/06/2025 00:40

Ha!

The poster Feisty is responding to had just called me ignorant and stupid. If she didn't want calling out in return maybe she should have chosen her words more carefully to begin with!

Her responses to everyone are shouty and a bit aggressive though. It's not helpful especially as she keeps shouting at a poster who has changed her views after reading different points on here. It's good that she's got a new understanding... Isn't it?

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:46

JsmeLegie · 24/06/2025 20:19

It's ok to admit you're out of your depth. It's even more impressive to then use that opportunity to enrich your knowledge for next time.

It's okay for you to admit you are way out of your depth and that is why you cowardly fled your own thread.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:49

JsmeLegie · 24/06/2025 20:39

The whole toilet thing is a red herring

I'd suggest that's accurate. I have a suspicion the toilet argument is simply an obfuscation to distract us. Trans-women have never been a collective threat to us, but a lot of furious energy is being spent - needlessly and foolishly - on compartmentalising and then demonising trans-women.

It's pernicious, it's divisive, and it's fundamentally - and I'd argue morally - wrong.

As males, transwomen are a huge threat to us. And statistics bear this out.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:51

Oh I'm being tone-policed. 🙄 How misogynistic! Yeah, women mustn't ever get angry or speak above a whisper, must we? Btw, I guess you have never heard of emphasis. It is completely different from 'shouting'.

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:53

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:44

So you ignore that poster calling people ignorant, but pounce on me when I return it back? That's disingenuous.

And I did post stats already further up in the thread.

You seem to be on an attack mission to everyone. Can you repost the stats on trans women who do nothing, take no hormones or any other feminising procedures as you said most of them don't.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:55

Eolhc1990 · 24/06/2025 20:50

I'm irish but living in the UK. I'm only responding to someone here who said they felt threatened by trans women in bathrooms.... I said I feared men more than trans women that's it. Then they doubled down with ridiculous interpretation of statistics.

Like I'm not totally in disagreement with you, I'm sure I would be considered a transphobe I don't really understand the sporting events/prison situation, like I'm not involved in those areas and totally see valid points from your side regarding that Plus i dont really agree with young kids transitioning (but then i dont have a trans kid).... I'm just saying I don't feel like trans women pose any more threat to me I'm a public bathroom than a cis woman mainly because there are just way more cis women.

I'm only responding to someone here who said they felt threatened by trans women in bathrooms.... I said I feared men more than trans women that's it.

Transwomen are men. In every single way.

You said they were no threat. Statistics were provided that prove not only are they very much a threat, they are a bigger threat than other males. Then you move the goalposts and complain about the 'interpretation' of statistics.

You just don't want to admit you were wrong thinking a fully intact male in a dress is no threat because the dress makes the difference.

Boiledbeetle · 25/06/2025 00:55

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:51

Oh I'm being tone-policed. 🙄 How misogynistic! Yeah, women mustn't ever get angry or speak above a whisper, must we? Btw, I guess you have never heard of emphasis. It is completely different from 'shouting'.

Plus on here

THIS IS SHOUTING

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:56

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:53

You seem to be on an attack mission to everyone. Can you repost the stats on trans women who do nothing, take no hormones or any other feminising procedures as you said most of them don't.

I am replying to posts, I am no more 'attacking' anyone than any of the other posters.

You're the one on an attack mission. You've honed in on me to attack me. One wonders why, what your agenda is.

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:57

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:51

Oh I'm being tone-policed. 🙄 How misogynistic! Yeah, women mustn't ever get angry or speak above a whisper, must we? Btw, I guess you have never heard of emphasis. It is completely different from 'shouting'.

Offs it's nothing to do with being tone policed, you just do seem to be attacking and a bit rude, it doesn't seem helpful or useful and off putting to anyone's mind you might change. But carry on

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:57

Boiledbeetle · 25/06/2025 00:55

Plus on here

THIS IS SHOUTING

Yes, quite.

I can't believe it. Being tone-policed on a feminist site. You couldn't make it up.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:58

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 00:57

Offs it's nothing to do with being tone policed, you just do seem to be attacking and a bit rude, it doesn't seem helpful or useful and off putting to anyone's mind you might change. But carry on

Her responses to everyone are shouty and a bit aggressive though

It is 100% about tone policing, at least admit it.

You are free to ignore me if you think my assertive and forthright posts are 'attacking'.

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 01:00

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:56

I am replying to posts, I am no more 'attacking' anyone than any of the other posters.

You're the one on an attack mission. You've honed in on me to attack me. One wonders why, what your agenda is.

The person you kept having a go had already said she'd been persuaded to change her views, which is a good thing but youre picking over her previous posts which seems a bit pointless. I have no agenda.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 01:03

JsmeLegie · 24/06/2025 20:59

I said I feared men more than trans women that's it. Then they doubled down with ridiculous interpretation of statistics.

You'll find that confirmation bias happens a lot around here.

And I very much agree with you. I've never felt threatened by the presence of trans-women, in my bathroom or not. I find those who do - without actual, verifiable evidence - rather sad, and those who attempt to misuse statistics in the desperate hope people won't pull them up on it, intellectually dishonest.

Yes, why would rape survivors like me fear males in our spaces. How sad that I, a rape survivor, fear males in the ladies. 🙄The fact is you post no evidence and desperately hope you won't have your misinformation called out. That, is intellectually dishonest. Just as it's intellectually dishonest and cowardly to flee a thread you start when your lies and misinformation are called out and you flee and not return. An admission from you that you've been defeated.

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 01:05

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 01:00

The person you kept having a go had already said she'd been persuaded to change her views, which is a good thing but youre picking over her previous posts which seems a bit pointless. I have no agenda.

Really? Well I post replies to posts as I read them, and haven't come up to that part yet.

But that didn't occur to you, did it? You went straight for my jugular before considering that perhaps I hadn't read that post yet.

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 01:05

FeistyCat · 25/06/2025 00:58

Her responses to everyone are shouty and a bit aggressive though

It is 100% about tone policing, at least admit it.

You are free to ignore me if you think my assertive and forthright posts are 'attacking'.

Edited

Ok well if you think I shouldn't be able to put my views in a forthright way I'll shut up then. Now I'm being policed 🙅

LivTwist · 25/06/2025 01:11

Still waiting for those stats though, I think it's an important point and I'd like to know

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