Why is anti-trans so important?

[Elizabethbd]

So, I will preface this with saying that I’m not in the UK, and my country does not yet have the kind of anti-trans debate as there is in the English speaking world.

So, I have a hard time understanding why this is such an important question to many women.

Surely there are women’s issues that affect a larger part of society.

I’m thinking rape and violence towards women, homelesness, sex trafficking and honour killings. Why are these issues not more important and worthy of attention, as they affect so many more women than those who come into contact with trans women (or men)?

You are incorrect about transwomen being mostly interested in men. I don't know what rhe split is between the gay and straight ones but you could read one of the transwidows threads to see how some of the straight ones treat their wifes

As we near the completion of yet another bingo card on just one thread, I've just realised that PCOS is being used in the 'how do you police who uses the toilets???!!! line.

No, not having that shit. I have PCOS. It's not an 'intersex' condition (as is frequently claimed by numpties), it does not make us 'look like men' and I'm not up for my female health condition to be used as some sort of bizarre gotcha to demand that men be allowed to use single sex female spaces and services.

It really isn't difficult. Men, however they identity, should not and cannot access single sex services and spaces which have been provided for the safety and dignity of women. If they do, they make themselves into, at best, men who are willing to contravene the safety and dignity of women.

We are not human shields, support animals or everyone's mum.

Morally wrong for women to want single sex spaces away from men who claim a trans gender identity?

Why?

Don't you think women (and by that I mean female people) should have boundaries away from male people?

Is this what you meant when you called JKR 'horrific' on the other thread?

Any why don't you go back to that thread? Have the courage of your convictions otherwise you are just a misogynistic coward.

So you don’t think anyone would be a bad actor? Do you understand basic safeguarding principles? Do you understand why spaces are segregated by sex in the first place?

This is like pulling teeth.

Fucking PCOS, for fuck's sake.

The O in PCOS stands for ovaries. If you have ovaries you are female.

I missed the PCOS comment.

Arseholes.

I have PCOS which for me results in thinning hair (on my head) and more facial hair, it's not the only reason I look masculine but it's one of the reasons. I have always drawn some stares in public bathrooms as im big and tall and im sure to some I look like a man in a dress.

We can never know what chromosomes or genitals someone has so the idea of policing bathrooms is so ridiculous. As if some het male sexual predator is going to look at a female bathroom and say "ooh better not go in there is biological females only" like c'mon it's ridiculous. Men will continue to attack women as they always have.

Not clear how "there aren't many of them" translates into "therefore they should be allowed into women's spaces".
An analogy:
Wasps, bees and hornets can all sting, although probably most of them go through their lives without ever doing so. Hornets are rarer, so I am less likely to be stung by a hornet, in fact I have never yet encountered one.
My "stinging insects policy" for wasps and bees that come into the house is to catch them in a glass and evict them. So should I exempt hornets from my policy on the grounds that there aren't many of them, and let a hornet zoom round in the house if one turns up?

"Morally wrong for women to want single sex spaces away from men who claim a trans gender identity?"

That was not what I said. I have my suspicions as to the psychology at work behind your post, but to give you the benefit of the doubt - and in the interests of absolute clarity - I have never, do not, and am very unlikely to suggest women wanting single sex spaces is immoral.

What is morally questionable is the aggressive, dismissive, and frankly bankrupt hideous behaviour toward trans-women by many - but not all - cis women.

Do you genuinely think a straight male attacker would go to the bother of pretending to be trans when he can just push the door and enter like they always could, straight men will continue to attack us (and attack trans women) as they always have. I just don't think trans women are the enemy..... het males are.

Oh go on then, I'd love a bit of pscyho analysis. What do you think is behind my post?

Also I'd love an example of the 'aggressive, dismissive and frankly bankrupt hideous behaviour towards trans women'?

Or do you mean women who call men men, for clarity? We are allowed to do that you know.

I find this post astounding against the mounting evidence that some men who claim trans identities are known to have done this.

Katie Dalowtoski, used a trans identity to sexually assault young girls in the toilets of a Morrisons supermarket. He's straight.

He's just one example.

I think we can safely say that with the statistics on the % of male people with transgender identities convicted of sex crimes compared to the proportion of the overall male population in the UK, we can establish that no male person reduces their risk of committing sex crimes with transitioning. Ie. the process of transitioning does little to reduce the male propensity to commit sex crimes.

Therefore, there is no indication at all that male people with transgender identities commit sex crimes at the same or at a lower rate than female people. It is the opposite.

Hence for safeguarding female people, no sub group of male people should be allowed to accesa female single sex spaces. Because no group of male people can be exempted from the over all group of male population in the UK. If generally male people are excluded, all male people with no exceptions are excluded.

That is what the prison statistics show.

The law has been clarified. The answer is 'no'. Males with trans identities should not use single-sex spaces for females.

Ok I didn't know about Katie Dalowtoski and just read an article and that is absolutely terrifying. OK maybe I'm not informed enough to be debating this. Sorry.

It doesn’t matter. All male people need to be excluded as per strong safeguarding risk assessment.

It doesn’t matter what a male person looks like, no female male should have to be asking male people if they are in the wrong toilet and risk being abused, no male person should have to feel that they have to have surgery to enter a space they should not be entering in any case, no male person should have to be judged on whether they pass or not. No female people should have to assess whether this male person has a conviction for sexual crime.
Just no male people past the age of about 8 years old.

That is the strongest safeguarding we have available.

I've yet to meet a woman with PCOS that looks like a man so I very much doubt you actually look like a man. I sure as hell dont, even with the thinning hair and too much facial hair for my liking.

The whole thing about not being able to police toilets is because the social contract that worked perfectly well for years has been eroded by the trans lobby insisting any bloke who utters the words "I am a woman", whether that was five minutes ago or five years ago be allowed into single sex women's spaces.

So for the past few years women have been reprimanded and ended up in employment tribunals for even dare suggesting a man might be there for nefarious reasons.

We are now thanks to the SC back to the social contract being in place and that means the good men stay out so the bad men stand out.

We are now back a position where women can say excuse me mate I think you are in the wrong toilets because the supreme court has said actually NO! men, with or without a GRC who claim womanhood are actually men and aren't welcome in the womens.

Is it going to stop all men who want to be in the womens? No. But it makes it easier for women to do something about a man trangressing those societal boundaries.

Fair enough I get your point. I shouldn't have entered a debate that I wasn't informed enough on.

What is morally questionable is the aggressive, dismissive, and frankly bankrupt hideous behaviour toward trans-women by many - but not all - cis women.

first of all fuck of with cis. Im
not a subset of my own sex class. I know you’ve been told this before but I’ll say it again anyway

secondly receipts please for the above statement. In particular

1. gender critical women marching with signs saying decapitate trans women or piss on shon faye
2. gender critical women threatening TW (men) with death or violent sexual assault
3. gender critical women surrounding meetings of Trans ppl and harassing them on the way, screaming and banging on windows while they speak and contacting venues threatening violence if the meetings are not cancelled

that Will do for a start

of course there is no evidence of any of that do your pathetically childish complaining about aggression are completely meaningless but do keep trying it’s not like we haven’t heard this all a million times before

oh wait! We have

Women wanting single sex spaces is not immoral but women wanting them to remain single sex by excluding all males from them, regardless of how they identify, is 'morally questionable...hideous behaviour'. Glad you've cleared that up.

Maybe you should go somewhere and find some ciswomen to talk to then about their behaviour as the majority of women in here are just women.

You're in the wrong place if you wish to tell ciswomen they are morally bankrupt.

They. Are. Both. Men.

Yup. One of just many, many examples

Do you genuinely think a straight male attacker would go to the bother of pretending to be trans when he can just push the door and enter like they always could.

Yes. Why would you assume a man who is happy to attack a woman wouldn't go to the bother of pretending to be trans?