Why is this subforum so intent on removing voices that dont' agree?

[BeeSouriante]

Like I've had three posts removed

People seem surprised that they can’t just plop onto the board, shout a load of unsubstantiated rhetoric, often rudely, and be unchallenged.

if you start a debate here, expect to have a debate.

I blame the #nodebate days. TRAs got so used to having no debate that when society moved on, they were out of practise and have no coherent points to make.

Bit them on the arse.

But there is #nodebate, for them.

Sadly, like that Japanese soldier, they don't seem to realise that time has moved on.

I'm pretty sure no amount of practice would have lead to a rational and defendable position because at the end of the day their arguments are not internally consistent.

Bit of a cross-post with @murasaki there 😆

Well that's true, but they've forgotten how to even make the incoherent arguments. It's just tantrum, and go.

I think the #NoDebate policy was introduced precisely because they knew they had no coherent points to make.

The problem is that society is no longer taking #NoDebate for an answer.

'Why take logic and reason into the shower, when you can just waaaaaaaah and go?'

I was trying to think of a way to make that comparison but you've nailed it there!

Nope I pointed out that the things that trans people say they have are in the DSM and that's why people say they have mental health issues and got deleted.

'Trans people have mental health issues'.

There is a case for discussion of whether dysphoria is a mental health issue.

GD was only relatively recently moved from the mental disorder category into the sexual health category. ICD 10 still described '“gender identity disorder of children”', for example, although the latest version has this instead:

ICD 11:

icd.who.int/browse10/2016/en#!/F64.0

' Gender incongruence has been moved out of the “Mental and behavioural disorders” chapter and into the new “Conditions related to sexual health” chapter. This reflects current knowledge that trans-related and gender diverse identities are not conditions of mental ill-health,'

And there's still a diagnostic requirement to consider whether gender incongruence is a paraphilic disorder, as noted in the ICD:

https://icd.who.int/browse/2025-01/mms/en#411470068

'Gender incongruence is characterised by a marked and persistent incongruence between an individual’s experienced gender and the assigned sex. Gender variant behaviour and preferences alone are not a basis for assigning the diagnoses in this group.
Exclusions
Paraphilic disorders(6D30-6D3Z)'

Sorry, 'gender incongruence' now, rather than 'dysphoria'.

And for some that change isn’t enough and they state they only have ’gender euphoria’ when presenting as the opposite sex.

On the trans issues I would say it over moderated agaisnt those who were opposed to trans rights for a period of time, then it re-read the room and shifted the other way.

I seem to have upset you in some way, your reaction is quite ‘forceful’ shall we say? This is an open forum where we have the right to comment on any post we choose - you and I do not need a formal introduction for me to comment on your post.

Your words above and your mention that despite not posting on here very much, you felt confident to claim that Mumsnet were moderating against ‘those who were opposed to trans rights’ which led me to believe that you lack understanding of the discussions and points made on this board. And now you have doubled down on your initial misrepresentation.

I have no idea why you find my response ‘bizarre’ when I am correcting a clear lack of knowledge of this board as you have admitted, and am not sure how your legal qualifications are relevant? I have not tried to ‘educate you on the legal position in this area’?

Maybe we could find some common understanding here to get over this clear misunderstanding of each other:

what do you mean by ‘trans rights’?

More likely that the mods are using reasonable balance on negative generalisations.

Because for as many that you are reporting that you believe are negative towards people with transgender identities that don’t get deleted , they also don’t delete the many daily negative generalisations made about the women who prioritise sex over gender and this particular board.

I believe they are attempting balance. If you don’t think they are getting it right, write to them and tell them. I encourage you to do that.

People kept saying to the people chanting no debate 'that's fine if you want to stick your fingers in your ears but the conversation will continue without you'

And it did.

I never report deranged TRA posts - even the horribly racist ones describing Black women as a ‘subset’ of women (who are basically men) - because they peak people and because sunlight is a disinfectant

@WithSilverBells- I genuinely choose not to discuss the subject on here really as I don’t enjoy engaging in the discussions. I honestly didn’t post to get involved in a discussion on trans rights (I would have thought that was clear from my initial post) but to comment on the moderation approach on this subject which I would say has clearly shifted over the last few years and - across the forum - I don’t think moderation is consistent or particularly good. I honestly would have thought this was an uncontroversial position, but even that seems to have really pissed some people off, despite me holding this view as a gender critical lesbian. I definitely don’t want to engage further on the topic 😂😂 - Anyway, not meant at all arsey to you, just didn’t want to ignore your post.

@CuriousGeorge80 Well I obvs respect your right not to engage. I just find it a bit odd that if you have some slam dunk lawyerly arguments about which trans rights shouldn't be opposed you would be willing to share them, being a gender critical lesbian and all

Edit to add @

As it's the Internet and we can claim to be, well, anything I am going to self declare myself as an eminent expert in 19th century book inscriptions, with a specialism of such books found in rural Aberdeenshire.

Come on. Two posts, both still up, buggered off.

It’s classic being offended and aggrieved but not actually wanting to engage in good faith. It’s tiresome.

Thrilling, tell me more. No! Honestly I'm not bored in the slightest

It seems to me that the alleged 'dissenting' voices take themselves out with the trash as they have no points to make. I'd be interested to hear their points should they ever be bothered to make any.

As said many times, only posts that break the guidelines are deleted.

Are you also posting on Reddit asking why gender critical comments are being removed? Or why they are not even allowing a gender critical thread to exist? I would welcome a civil, evidence-based debate with the pro trans side, but have yet to find anyone willing to have one with me.

I've never posted on Reddit. Maybe we should all have a wee outing. We can take biscuits.