How to talk about 'trans-girl' in my son's class.

[user1471471849]

Hello,

My son is 7 and there is a 6 year old trans-girl (aka a boy who identifies as a girl) in his school. It's a small school so everyone interacts with each other a lot. When the boy first socially transitioned and started wearing girls clothes and changed their name it was hard to know how to explain this to my son. He's a clever guy who asks hard questions and he was confused about what was going on. I went with the line that the child is a boy but is confused and feels he's a girl and not to bring it up to avoid arguments or hurt feelings.
Just to be clear, I don't agree with the parents' choice to socially transition such a young kid, I feel the kid is being pushed into this.. But it's not my place to say and I'm conscious of the poor kid's mental health and not wanting to make his life harder. To me, sex is binary and immutable but I knew that I'd eventually run into problems. Unfortunately, my son doesn't get on well with this kid and has made comments about him really being a boy. So we were called into the principal's office today saying the boy (or girl in the child's mind) is transgender and is a girl now. I explained what I'd told my son- that the child is biologically a boy but is confused and feels he's a girl and to not bring it up. I also said I wasn't willing to lie to my child and say that you can change sex and I got the impression that they agreed but said it's the school policy ( here and nationwide- in Ireland) to accept this.

Obviously, we don't want our son to be upsetting anyone so we'll make sure he knows to be very mindful of people's feelings but it's such a hard road to navigate (being truthful with him and trying to make sure he doesn't upset the child by passing on his thoughts on the matter- it's not a nice situation for anyone). I know we're going to come up against this again. The parents haven't said anything to us but I reckon it's only a matter of time.
If anyone has any advice on how I could manage this situation better please let me know.

Thanks.

@user1471471849 I would* *want to have a place in a new school sorted before I pulled him from the (private but State funded) system and get the Dep of Edu involved first in finding a space if you are in a high demand area.

I think I'd go down the lines of 'it upsets Alex when you call him a boy. We don't really know why, because we're not Alex. But it's better not to say things that upset people on purpose"
This may stop him going out of his way to call the boy a boy, but there will no doubt be other issues down the line when DS uses 'he' and there's further complaints. Which will be much more difficult to address.
Such a difficult situation OP, with no easy answer. Those poor children. What a mess.

Well, happy for you you can pull him out. You son will be fine, I'm sure.

Not so sure about the little girls in that school. I am really, really feeling for them in the next few years. What a fucking nightmare. Those parents of that boy must be absolute assholes.

Your beliefs are protected- this has not been tested in Ireland as there have been no court cases in Ireland (Enoch Burke’s case has centred on contempt of court) however the Maya Forstater case used EU legislation. You should clarify with the school exactly what the policy is and whether they have done an impact assessment and a risk assessment prior to implementing this policy. You should also ask the school how their policies in this context protect children with religious beliefs and neurodiverse children. Contact the Countess or Genspect they should be able to help you.

Because he is confused. No-one is the opposite sex to their sexed body. Poor child, with stupid parents.

Put the trans stuff aside and concentrate on parenting your own child - who, IMO has made a couple of transgressions:

1. you told him not to say anything - he went against this direct instruction from you. He needs to obey your instructions.

2. the trans stuff is irrelevant - you do not hurt the feelings of another person. That’s not to say you agree with the ideology. I think your child needs to understand that this child is a person and therefore he should not say things that he knows will upset that person. He should remove himself from the situation.

You say he’s clever, so these two amendments should be easy for him to understand and carry out.

I looked into this and was told that we could bring a case against him but that we would be questioned on why we don't just move schools. Also, my son is possibly neurodivergent (getting tested for ADHD) and I don't want to put him through any more turmoil. I worry that his character might be questioned, as some users have here, when although he is very bright, he does question things. Also, he hasn't gone out of his way to 'misgender' but it has come up 3 times in 2 years.

( the rest of this message is a general reply to all)
Although it's hard for adults to tell the difference between a prepubescent boy or girl, kids know the difference straight away. He's asked me why X is a boy but says he's a girl. He's said he looks like a boy, talks like a boy so why is he saying he's a girl. How can you possibly explain that to a kid other than say the boy is confused.

The trans-identifying boy's gender distress is imo, being driven by his parents. When he used his boys name recently, the parents reminded him that he was now 'girlsname'. He obviously is very confused because if there's a boys v girls game he doesn't know where to go. He teases classmates that he is a boy.

There is a clique of blue-haired parents in that school who are determined to stamp out any dissenting voices and have targeted my son and labeled him a troublemaker. They've brought false complaints against him and only for we were witnesses we might have believed them. We've seen him play normally and be perfectly well-behaved and they've still found some reason to give out. That was recently and it was the last straw for us.

So it's through the entire culture of the school and noone else will stand up to them. They are on the board of management, the PTA and the woman I think is behind it all has the principal in her back pocket. We all have to twist reality and walk on eggshells to suit the needs and whims of 3 special families. The whole thing is toxic and abusive and the best thing to do is get as far away from these people as possible.

My husband and I were so angry at the treatment our son has received that we considered lodging a formal complaint. The principal herself has mistreated him. I won't go into details as I'd be here all day. She talks a good talk though and could probably justify (in her mind) everything she's done. It's very hard to prove she has bad intentions towards our son even though we strongly feel it and all the evidence points to it. Now, we've decided to just get the hell out of dodge and concentrate on helping our son recover and rebuild his confidence.

The feelings of the trans child should not be more important than the feelings of every other child in the school who are being directed to ignore reality and lie to themselves. Yes, I agree he shouldn't upset anyone on purpose but he shouldn't be forced to accept something as fact and to believe something he clearly doesn't believe. If children are being taught to ignore their instincts and not to question adults when they say black is white, where will that lead them?

Do you have kids?

6/7 year old are really little. They probably believe in father Christmas!

You, and some other posters are acting as though what the OPs boy has said is irrelevant and just like any other incidence of unkindness.

It isn't; he and the other children are being gaslit to ignore the evidence of their own eyes . He knows he is being lied to by trusted adults, and he is confused. Punishing him for his confusion is going to be terribly harmful.

I'm not suggesting he should deliberately go out of his way to upset the trans girl, but people who are upset by reality are going to be upset sometimes. Its not reasonable to expect the entire world to lie because you can't cope with reality.

That poor child (trans girl), their parents are causing them a world of confusion and upset and setting them up for a lifetime of unhappiness - because they are being sold a lie.

Incidentally, there is no 'human right' , as a PPsaid/the OPwas told by school, to be recognised as the opposite sex (I can't stand people quoting made up 'human rights' to try to justify their behaviour):

https://www.un.org/en/about-us/universal-declaration-of-human-rights

However, the following articles may be relevant here:

18 Everyone has the right to freedom of thought, conscience and religion...

19 Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression...

26(3) Parents have a prior right to choose the kind of education that shall be given to their children.

Absolutely.

For what it's worth, I think you're doing the right thing.

Thanks Aston, great to see that info.
This one also drew my eye:
Article 26

1. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementary and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory. Technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit.

My son was put on 7 months of reduced hours in school last year by the principal and I only found out afterwards that it's supposed to be for a maximum of 6 weeks. Even though I pointed that out to her she is trying to manage him out of the school imo and has said he should now go on another 3 months of reduced hours, with the first 3 weeks being just 2 hours a day. I can't even begin to describe the totalitarian, dictatorial shitshow that is that school. Words fail me.

And this
Article 5
No one shall be subjected to torture or to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.

My son was punished and a report written against him for having a panic attack. Instead of trying to help him calm down and just open the fucking locked door he was trying to get out of, they stood there taking notes on his behaviour and what he was saying in a complete blind panic. These people have no true compassion.

Also, when she said it's a 'human right', I was tempted to say 'what about women's rights' but sure, what's the point. I might as well shout into the wind. If these thoughts haven't occurred to her yet it's either wilful ignorance or it just doesn't suit her agenda to acknowledge that all people have rights. People like that principal should not in positions of power and should definitely not be in charge of children.

The OPs child has as much of a right to make his own choices as the other child. He has no obligation to play along with the demand that he pretends the boy is a girl and uses wrong sex pronouns.

If the other child is in the same class there will always be situations where he can not and should not have to remove himself from class activities.

TBH the bend over backwards to "Be Kind" is always only one way. Where is the "Be Kind" from the adults in the school who have a legal obligation to not force their and the other family's and the childs social expectation on a child who is only there to go to school? Why are they refusing to see the OPs child as a person who should not be bullied for being honest about what he sees?

Why is it that the school are breaching basic safeguarding of all the girls in his class by allowing a male into the female changing rooms when the girls are changing after swimming? This will be all fun and games once these girls start worrying about puberty and periods and some parents will begin to stand up for their girls rights.

God if only you understood the problem and how forced repeating of lies harms others compelled to go against it.

Why is no one kind to those who see and understand reality? Why do they have to uphold bullshit.

This is gaslighting abusive shit.

Why must children be compelled to lie to avoid 'hurting feelings'? It's not the OP's child's fault that this child cannot deal with their reality?

@user1471471849 as your child has extra needs I would not remove him from the school without involving the DofE and the council for special ed as other local schools may not be able to take him.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/education/special-education-needs/the-law-on-special-educational-needs/

IMO Its always easier to be the squeeky wheel in the school rather than lone parents with no school place due to "your choice" to remove him.

The school are engaged in discrimination under the Equal Status act on the disability grounds.

I take one horrifying thing from this about the 'trans' DC. If the child in question has now decided he is a boy (as he is) and the parents are correcting him that he is now a girl that is child abuse. They would appear to want to keep having a 'trans' child because of the status it gives them and are presumably happy to mutilate and sterilize their child. Why is no-one stopping this?
As for your poor DS, he has done nothing wrong. It is utterly wicked to make children lie about what they can clearly see, and a massive safeguarding problem for the whole school. And at some point the parents of girls are going to start objecting because this boy is in their daughters' supposedly sex-segregated spaces (which I understand is ok in Ireland).

And at some point the parents of girls are going to start objecting because this boy is in their daughters' supposedly sex-segregated spaces (which I understand is ok in Ireland).

Have there not been any objections from other parents, OP?

No, everyone keeps quiet about it. I've had conversations with two parents about it. Both horrified by the situation and both think it's child abuse. One was telling me the only girl in the transkid's class objected when the transgirl won a 'best girl' award in the class. The girl shouted out 'but he's not a girl' and was shushed and removed from the room. These kids are both 6. The other parent told me how confused her own son was seeing the transkid doing wees into bushes while standing up. The whole thing is crazy.

What a terrible message to give those girls - comply/obey, or you'll be punished!

Giving a girls award to the TiM is really goady- they clearly wanted the kids to say that the emperor is naked so that they could be punished.

Sounds like activists on the staff.

@user1471471849 sorry for what you and your boy are going through 💐

Giving a girls award when there's only two possible recipients (I know, I know) is surely pretty problematic anyway.

I don't think there were only two possible "girls" it's just that only one girl spoke out.

It sounds like you are moving your son @user1471471849 but you could have a case for disability discrimination (on which I assume there is similar legislation in IE).

I probably could but I don't think I'd get anywhere and I want him out of the school asap. I think the whole place is too far gone down that path and I'd be fighting a losing battle. I'm going to investigate the links people have sent though before I pull him out, to see what the best course of action is.

Best boy award went to a boy
Best girl award went to a boy

There was only one possible recipient so it was a stupid thing to do.

OP said there was only one girl in the class - and she protested. And was punished for saying the emperor had no clothes.