How to talk about 'trans-girl' in my son's class.

[user1471471849]

Hello,

My son is 7 and there is a 6 year old trans-girl (aka a boy who identifies as a girl) in his school. It's a small school so everyone interacts with each other a lot. When the boy first socially transitioned and started wearing girls clothes and changed their name it was hard to know how to explain this to my son. He's a clever guy who asks hard questions and he was confused about what was going on. I went with the line that the child is a boy but is confused and feels he's a girl and not to bring it up to avoid arguments or hurt feelings.
Just to be clear, I don't agree with the parents' choice to socially transition such a young kid, I feel the kid is being pushed into this.. But it's not my place to say and I'm conscious of the poor kid's mental health and not wanting to make his life harder. To me, sex is binary and immutable but I knew that I'd eventually run into problems. Unfortunately, my son doesn't get on well with this kid and has made comments about him really being a boy. So we were called into the principal's office today saying the boy (or girl in the child's mind) is transgender and is a girl now. I explained what I'd told my son- that the child is biologically a boy but is confused and feels he's a girl and to not bring it up. I also said I wasn't willing to lie to my child and say that you can change sex and I got the impression that they agreed but said it's the school policy ( here and nationwide- in Ireland) to accept this.

Obviously, we don't want our son to be upsetting anyone so we'll make sure he knows to be very mindful of people's feelings but it's such a hard road to navigate (being truthful with him and trying to make sure he doesn't upset the child by passing on his thoughts on the matter- it's not a nice situation for anyone). I know we're going to come up against this again. The parents haven't said anything to us but I reckon it's only a matter of time.
If anyone has any advice on how I could manage this situation better please let me know.

Thanks.

The child is seven years old for goodness sake. Have you ever had a seven year old?

To be fair, we don't know how the 'trans' child speaks to him. They don't get on. It takes two.

It isn’t the name change that’s a problem but the insistence on the use of opposite sex pronouns for 6/7 year olds. You are asking them to lie and that is very confusing.

Children of this age have just worked out that sex is not the same as what clothes you wear but is more intrinsic to a person’s being. We are mammals, we recognise this difference quite fundamentally, and it is part of normal psychological development to understand sex permanence around this age.

It was quite clear in the Cass review and other psychological writing that social transition is not a neutral act, and can concretise a passing phase.

It isn’t kind to get everyone round a young child to pretend they can change sex; the approach of puberty where sex differences become obvious is inevitable and that will worsen the child’s mental health.

How can a child easily row back from a position where they have made everyone round them pretend they are the opposite sex? It is such a damaging thing to do to a child to give them that much power. They need secure boundaries.

Far better that adults adopt a relaxed attitude to gender non-conforming children, let them get on with wearing what they want and playing games they want, but hold the truth for them that they can’t change sex. Most of them grow out of this phase if left to develop.

No, they don't, not at age 7. I see changing names in children as a way of unhitching the child from their family and destabilising the family unit.

Why is the school pushing gender?

Why would the school teaching 7 year olds that they have any obligation to lie about something they all know is true?

The school has no right to force the OPs child to lie.

The school has a legal obligation to take the POs belief and her childs beliefs into account when creating any policy or pratice.

The OP has a right to look out for her own child.

No, it doesn't take two for bullying to happen.

The victim does not have to participate in bullying in any way to allow themselves to be bullied, unless you're going with victim blaming, presumably because you think being trans is stupid.

Personally I think trying to get a child to lie about what they know to be the truth is bullying, especially when enforced by adults. It's also emotionally abusive as defined in KCSIE.

It also disrupts normal language development. Pronouns are not a personal choice, unlike names. They are based on observation of sex and determined by the person speaking.

Changing name is less problematic (unless forced on the child, however OP and her son can't know about that) but wrong-sex pronouns undermine natural safeguarding instincts and are usually only achieved by bullying.

The mother said the two do not get on. Just because someone, even a child, adopts a trans identity it doesn't automatically transform them also into an angel - full of sweetness and light.

There was a girl in my granddaughter's school who came back after the lockdown declaring that she was now a boy ( She was aged 10, primary school). This was confusing for her friends and when they automatically referred to her as 'she' she called them "transphobic" - which upset them very much.

She seemed to believe that everyone and everything must now revolve around her new desires and needs.

No one likes a bullying narcissist.

It's really parenting101 that you teach children that if they go around being mean and calling other children names ('transphobic') as soon as they have a mind of their own and different opinions they won't want to play with you any more.

These poor children are being tragically let down. Detransitioners say how fast the 'community' ditches them and often at that point their disrespectful behaviour (taught by the gender ideology playbook - any slight different of opinion is 'transphobic hate') has lost them other friends.

No child has to be friends with another child if they don't want to be. Why would any child be friends with someone that doesn't respect their different beliefs?

The OP said Unfortunately, my son doesn't get on well with this kid and has made comments about him really being a boy.

When you don't get on with someone, you stay away from them, you don't make nasty comments, because that is bullying. The OP has not said "the trans child is mean to my son so he made nasty comments in retaliation did she? If the other child was being horrible to her son I'm sure she would have mentioned it. There are lots of people I don't get on with, I don't say nasty things to them which are intentionally focused on the one thing that I know will upset them most.

There are people at work who I don't get on with, I can tell they don't like me, but I don't care because I also don't like them. None of them make nasty comments to me because we don't get on, they just don't talk to me. If one did make nasty comments, I would report them to HR for bullying. Because not getting on with someone is not an excuse or an acceptable reason to be shitty to someone. You know that. If the other child wasn't transgender and this thread was just about one kid being mean to another kid you wouldn't be making out the victims fault for antagonising their bully.

The point you are making bears little relation to the post by the OP. You are simply trying to hammer home your own point.

i have chidren, grandchildren and have been. teacher. I don't need a long lecture about bullying, what it looks like, and what it involves

Neither you nor I know what has passed between the two, apart from what has been shared by the OP. Children can react emotionally, just as any of us can....maybe even more so since they cannot articulate their reasoning or their feelings.

i'm not assigning " fault" to anyone. You are.

Saying someone's a boy isn't being 'mean' though. It's a neutral statement of observed reality. The only way this can be interpreted as being mean is through a lens of extreme misandry. There's nothing wrong with being male.

People used to mistake my babies for the other sex all the time. Guess what? It wasn't offensive and no-one cared. Because it's not offensive to be either sex.

It's as if a child saying to another child 'you're a human' is mean. It's not. Saying something that is neutral is 'abusive' is extremely toxic manipulation and emotional abuse of both children.

Since when is "comments about him really being a boy" = "nasty comments"

Both children are boys.
7 year olds in a small school group not mini adults who can manage conflicting ideas. The OP has already said that she will tell her son to avoid the "topic" as much as possible

They are at the age where sex matters as girls are beginning to be yucky. And the OPs child is not willing to pretend that the boy is a girl and the school are now very aware of the fact that the OP will support her childs right to hold that belief.

Going to "HR" or the Head has already happened. And I will take bets that the Department of Education is not going to fund a consitutional challange against the rights of the OPs child. On the basis his rights are trumped by some Departmental policy around what is defined and managed by the public health service as mental health issue. So the school management will be on their own.

So now it is up to the adults in charge of the school to work out how to manage both children while respecting the beliefs of both children.

To clarify, I mean they aren't friends and the 'trans girl' often teases and laughs at my son. I am not at the school to observe exactly what happens but I have observed this at other times. My son doesn't bully him at all but doesn't accept outright that he is now a girl. The trans girl is quite full on and I have seen him when I was volunteering at swimming lessons saying 'this changing room is girls only'. I can imagine if my son was forced into giving his opinion he would say that the boy is not a girl. This might have happened as the school have mentioned it to me. I've told him not to bring it up but at the same time, I don't think it's good for the mental health of him or any of the kids to lie to them and say that a boy is now a girl because he is wearing a dress and has grown his hair long. It is so damaging, not only to the kid but to all the other children who are being gaslighted into accepting this as reality.
Actually, the father overheard me talking to my son who was explaining which kid owned a particular toy and I said, is that the girl in 2nd class, and he said 'no, the girl, aka the boy in a different class'. Personally, I think the parents just want to shut down any of that kind of talk and keep the illusion going. So it might have stemmed from that comment alone. If backed into a corner and forced to give my opinion on this I will. I don't relish the prospect though. And thanks to previous posters for all your support.

Using correct sexed language and stating material reality about someone's sex class is not making a 'nasty comment'.

Yeah, and they ought to know (and usually do) they don't need to behave like a dick towards people they come across in life.

If they take after you they must be delightful.

I'm replying in kind because I think there's an additional issue here, that posters like you are willfully ignoring. I wouldn't speak to a child like that, whatever their confusion ('trans' child) or behaviour (OP's child). I've already (weeks ago) acknowledged that this child is clearly struggling and needs adult support.

I just also happen to think that deliberately being cruel to someone you don't get on with at school and need not speak to if you find them strange or unusual (and who, from an adult's point of view is likely vulnerable and needs support) shows a distinct lack of manners or decency.

I don't think there is any evidence that the 7 year old son of the OP has been " deliberately cruel". And as already stated, we don't know the attitudes and behaviour of the. 'trans' child towards the other children, or towards the son of the OP in particular.

We are talking about 6 and 7 year olds.....and you must know from your own experienece the level at which they typically operate. Children fall out with each other all of the time.

Exactly.

The number of people making out it fine to deliberate hurt someone because you don't like them is astounding.

Yes, it is.

Deliberately calling someone something that you know will upset them and invalidates their identity and the way they see themselves is nasty.

Calling a person who is happy as a woman, a woman is not nasty. Calling a man who is happy to be a man is not nasty. But deliberately ignoring someone's identity and point out something you know will upset them is nasty. Because your intention is to upset them.

It is not reasonable to expect people, child or adult, to act as if they believe another’s philosophical belief about themselves when that belief that does not reflect material reality. A person who believes that no one can change sex and that the English language is based on that sex has the right to their own beliefs and to act accordingly.

The intention might be simply to maintain the truth. Your absolutism that the only positioning is ‘nasty’ means that a child has no right to their own belief and must act in support of another person’s philosophical belief even when it contradicts their own.

What other group’s language demands based on philosophical belief, one that doesn’t reflect material reality, is affirmed by society in this way?

I've already explained the context in which it came up. I don't think there's any point in explaining this again. Do you think the mental health of the trans child is more important than the mental health of everyone else in the school? I think they are all important. 6 and 7 year olds have no idea about sex permanence. This trans kid has no idea of the path he has been unwittingly set on. I think that's the 'nasty' point here. He is likely headed towards puberty blockers, infertility, sex change, lifelong medical issues and definitively a lifetime of confusion and trauma How is it kind to go along with this?

Having said that, the whole reason I've posted is on how to deal with this sensitively so I can be mindful of the poor child in as much as possible but also hold on to some semblance of reality and truth for my child.

You might want to look up Dr. John Money, the first doctor to experiment on a set of twin boys, one of whom accidentally had his penis cut off during a routine operation. He convinced the parents to raise the boy as a girl, convinced the whole world that his experiment was a success and that gender was fluid. It wasn't a success, the boy (who was brought up to believe he was a girl) reverted to being a boy and killed himself. His brother died of an opium overdose. And here we are, in a dystopian world where we're being told people can change sex and we should just accept it.

You are not 7 years old.

We had this situation but reverse the sexes. IMO the confused child benefitted ultimately from the gentle ribbing from classmates who wouldn’t or couldn’t go along with the lie and luckily her parents accepted it when she desisted before the end of primary school. Also, there were enough parents who, although always respectful of the child, her privacy etc, gently made the parents aware that not everyone in the community believed in trans ideology and that they would be well supported if they started entertaining any doubts of their own. A few parents went as far as to express that the child was always welcome for play dates but in their homes, sex based pronouns would be used. Some parents now feel the child was ‘bullied’ when she thought she was a boy, but my impression was that the sane members of the community gently helped to bring her back to reality. She is now very settled in her body, excels at sport, with a large group of friends, where before she was floundering, and everyone around her was tiptoeing.

I hope that with gentle resistance from his community, the child in your son’s class will experience the same. The key is gentleness and subtlety so that the parents and the child don’t get too entrenched and feel under attack. That said I do think that parents of female children in this case need to be brave enough to stand up for their daughters and refuse consent if the bathroom and changing facilities do not afford them single sex privacy, especially after this boy turns 8.

With your poor wee boy I think you are doing well so far, just keep going. I always reminded my kids, this poor child is confused and suffering, and their parents are confused too. My young son was very confused about the situation and my heart broke for him when he would ask me questions like ‘but how can she be a boy and a girl?’ with genuine pain in his eyes. It’s a cruel trick to play on these kids and the people who have caused this to get into our schools are truly evil. See it as an early lesson for the kids in staying strong in what you know to be true whilst not letting the ‘mad crowd’ alienate you for this. A complex tightrope we all face eventually in life. Wishing you strength from another small country where GI has totally engulfed the officialdom.