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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.

603 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 30/05/2025 18:15

worldboxing.org/news/

Guess we'll finally find out whether Imane Khelif is female or not. I suspect he will avoid the testing "out of principle" 🤭

OP posts:
Thread gallery
42
TopographicalTime · 01/06/2025 19:42

What happened to Khelif suing media outlets? Is that case still grinding on? Seems to have gone quiet on that one

SaggyTitsAndFlabbyArse · 01/06/2025 19:44

ThatCyanCat · 01/06/2025 19:33

He (it was so obviously a he) said something like "you don't need a single sex changing room, nobody wants to look at your saggy tits and flabby arse", I lamented that I couldn't change to that name mid thread and lo and behold, SaggyTitsAndFlabbyArse appeared. It was very funny.

It's like the bat-signal, only saggier and flabbier.

SabrinaThwaite · 01/06/2025 19:48

TopographicalTime · 01/06/2025 19:42

What happened to Khelif suing media outlets? Is that case still grinding on? Seems to have gone quiet on that one

Presumably Khelif could only sue if Khelif could prove that Khelif is female and has been libelled (or whatever Khelif was claiming).

And now Khelif has the perfect opportunity to do just that.

I’m not holding my breath on that though.

mcduffy · 01/06/2025 20:29

Olly Brown on it as always these days
Medical report that ‘proves Imane Khelif is biological male’ leaked
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/gift/7312083bfabec21c

FlakyCritic · 01/06/2025 20:39

That medical report is old news though. It was posted on 3wiresports during the Olympics last year.

murasaki · 01/06/2025 20:43

The TRAs will claim it's fake news anyway.

maximc · 01/06/2025 21:25

SabrinaThwaite · 01/06/2025 19:48

Presumably Khelif could only sue if Khelif could prove that Khelif is female and has been libelled (or whatever Khelif was claiming).

And now Khelif has the perfect opportunity to do just that.

I’m not holding my breath on that though.

Khelif never sued anyone. I imagine their team was advised that anyone accused (especially someone like JK Rowling with effectively unlimited legal funds) would make a motion for discovery & under that would be able to view medical records. A complaint was made to the French authorities about him being called a man online, but as it concerned people not under French jurisdiction, there was very little they could do anyway.

ThatCyanCat · 01/06/2025 21:49

It was pure posturing. TRAs were going insane saying JKR was going to prison over it. To quote Robin Ellacott when she finally has enough at the Universal Humanitarian Church and sees that she's looking into the very face of fanaticism and no amount of reason or evidence will make any difference: They're all mad. They're fucking mad.

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 22:26

nauticant · 01/06/2025 19:11

This is a very good article, thank you for posting it eatfigs and nauticant.

I know I'm in a tiny tiny minority here, but I have a degree of regard, thought not exactly sympathy, for IK. I've always believed that he WAS assumed to be a girl from birth, and brought up as a girl - a very tomboyish girl, and in a rural community, where a girl who can lend a hand at the heavy work around the place is useful - and that he was taken up and used by the political and sporting classes when he was young and arguably unaware of his real biological status.

This article confirms that his DSD would have resulted in being identified as female at birth and being brought up a girl.

When it was ascertained that he was in fact male, what he needed was love and support from his family and his mentors to deal with what is a profound discovery for a young person, and a career path outside of women's boxing.
But that would have been detrimental to Algerian national interests, so much had been invested in him, not least financially, so he was led along the mendacious path towards national glory and Olympic gold.

Did IK himself accept the tests that showed he was male? Who knows. His minders, and experts at the renowned Kremlin-Bicetre Hospital in Paris , assured him and everyone else that the tests were wrong and IK was 100% female. Who was he most likely to believe?

At some point IK should have had the self-awareness, courage, wisdom, honesty and integrity to say no to the national political and sporting authorities, to turn down all the funding and the adulation and the medals and the gifts and accept that he is man, instead of an extra-ordinary woman.

I know he is regarded as nothing but a cheat and many posters have said they have zero sympathy for him, and I understand that.

I'm not defending him, but he was not lying when he said he was born and brought up as a girl - the tests show that that would have been the case for someone with his DSD; and at a young age he was caught up in a powerful political machine that was cynically using him and his medical condition for political gain.

It's great that WB has brought in these tests, one way or another they should bring the shameful women's boxing chapter of the IK story to an end.

eatfigs · 01/06/2025 22:31

Full page of that karotype test result:

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.
eatfigs · 01/06/2025 22:31

eatfigs · 01/06/2025 22:31

Full page of that karotype test result:

Published this evening by Djaffar Ait Aoudia

SidewaysOtter · 01/06/2025 22:33

ArabellaScott · 01/06/2025 10:35

I don't want to overexcite you all on a Sunday morning, but this exists.

Imagine that paired with a similar tower of cheese and a vat of chutney <daydreams happily>

Barbie222 · 01/06/2025 22:38

I can see what @MarieDeGournay is saying but the bottom line is, it’s not honest for IK to continue to imply he is female because at birth that’s what they all thought. It’s grifting, pure and simple - an opportunity to make money was seen and taken. The Khelif machine took a gamble on self ID in sport winning out in the West and lost.

outofdate · 01/06/2025 22:40

Now that the Telegraph have published the test results the cat is out of the bag. All media outlets (except maybe the BBC..) will follow suit.

AnotherDayInParadise43 · 01/06/2025 22:43

Thanks for sharing eatfigs

BundleBoogie · 01/06/2025 22:45

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 22:26

This is a very good article, thank you for posting it eatfigs and nauticant.

I know I'm in a tiny tiny minority here, but I have a degree of regard, thought not exactly sympathy, for IK. I've always believed that he WAS assumed to be a girl from birth, and brought up as a girl - a very tomboyish girl, and in a rural community, where a girl who can lend a hand at the heavy work around the place is useful - and that he was taken up and used by the political and sporting classes when he was young and arguably unaware of his real biological status.

This article confirms that his DSD would have resulted in being identified as female at birth and being brought up a girl.

When it was ascertained that he was in fact male, what he needed was love and support from his family and his mentors to deal with what is a profound discovery for a young person, and a career path outside of women's boxing.
But that would have been detrimental to Algerian national interests, so much had been invested in him, not least financially, so he was led along the mendacious path towards national glory and Olympic gold.

Did IK himself accept the tests that showed he was male? Who knows. His minders, and experts at the renowned Kremlin-Bicetre Hospital in Paris , assured him and everyone else that the tests were wrong and IK was 100% female. Who was he most likely to believe?

At some point IK should have had the self-awareness, courage, wisdom, honesty and integrity to say no to the national political and sporting authorities, to turn down all the funding and the adulation and the medals and the gifts and accept that he is man, instead of an extra-ordinary woman.

I know he is regarded as nothing but a cheat and many posters have said they have zero sympathy for him, and I understand that.

I'm not defending him, but he was not lying when he said he was born and brought up as a girl - the tests show that that would have been the case for someone with his DSD; and at a young age he was caught up in a powerful political machine that was cynically using him and his medical condition for political gain.

It's great that WB has brought in these tests, one way or another they should bring the shameful women's boxing chapter of the IK story to an end.

The interesting thing though is that there is nothing about his demeanour or presentation that remotely indicates a belief that he was female when younger.

He appears very relaxed with impromptu physical contact with men and appears to have no issue with not covering his hair etc. Pictures and footage taken years ago when he might have been late teens/early 20s (he’s still only 26) show a person apparently very relaxed with presenting male.

Surely if he was genuinely brought up as a female he would at least have absorbed some the extensive conditioning little Muslim girls are subjected to? Unless he’s a very quick learner?

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 22:48

Barbie222 · 01/06/2025 22:38

I can see what @MarieDeGournay is saying but the bottom line is, it’s not honest for IK to continue to imply he is female because at birth that’s what they all thought. It’s grifting, pure and simple - an opportunity to make money was seen and taken. The Khelif machine took a gamble on self ID in sport winning out in the West and lost.

I agree completely about 'The Khelif Machine', and I couldn't agree more that it was a disgrace that he was ever anywhere near a ring with women boxers.

I agree 100% that whenever accepted that he was not in fact female, as he was believed to be at birth and as he was brought up as a child, he absolutely should have had the courage and integrity to do the right thing and walk away from 'The Machine'.

edited to add that not all Algerian women cover their heads, it's quite a mixed society, and many wear 'western' clothes, they obviously all wear standard sportswear when playing sports, though the observant ones may wear a hijab as well.

murasaki · 01/06/2025 22:59

I'm pretty sure lost of them don't get carried round on their coach's shoulders, legs either side of a man's neck though, as I seem to recall Khelif doing.

FlakyCritic · 02/06/2025 01:26

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 22:26

This is a very good article, thank you for posting it eatfigs and nauticant.

I know I'm in a tiny tiny minority here, but I have a degree of regard, thought not exactly sympathy, for IK. I've always believed that he WAS assumed to be a girl from birth, and brought up as a girl - a very tomboyish girl, and in a rural community, where a girl who can lend a hand at the heavy work around the place is useful - and that he was taken up and used by the political and sporting classes when he was young and arguably unaware of his real biological status.

This article confirms that his DSD would have resulted in being identified as female at birth and being brought up a girl.

When it was ascertained that he was in fact male, what he needed was love and support from his family and his mentors to deal with what is a profound discovery for a young person, and a career path outside of women's boxing.
But that would have been detrimental to Algerian national interests, so much had been invested in him, not least financially, so he was led along the mendacious path towards national glory and Olympic gold.

Did IK himself accept the tests that showed he was male? Who knows. His minders, and experts at the renowned Kremlin-Bicetre Hospital in Paris , assured him and everyone else that the tests were wrong and IK was 100% female. Who was he most likely to believe?

At some point IK should have had the self-awareness, courage, wisdom, honesty and integrity to say no to the national political and sporting authorities, to turn down all the funding and the adulation and the medals and the gifts and accept that he is man, instead of an extra-ordinary woman.

I know he is regarded as nothing but a cheat and many posters have said they have zero sympathy for him, and I understand that.

I'm not defending him, but he was not lying when he said he was born and brought up as a girl - the tests show that that would have been the case for someone with his DSD; and at a young age he was caught up in a powerful political machine that was cynically using him and his medical condition for political gain.

It's great that WB has brought in these tests, one way or another they should bring the shameful women's boxing chapter of the IK story to an end.

and that he was taken up and used by the political and sporting classes when he was young and arguably unaware of his real biological status.

No. He knew when he started puberty. He's in his late 20s. He was discovered for boxing in 2018. So he was definitely aware of his real biological status well before he started boxing in any form.

TheAutumnCrow · 02/06/2025 02:39

Riley Gaines has tweeted the Telegraph article, which is how I saw it.

The archive (free) version is at https://archive.ph/EvVQY

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/boxing/2025/06/01/imane-khelif-medical-report-proves-biological-male/

sashh · 02/06/2025 05:04

ArabellaScott · 30/05/2025 20:20

Watching the news. Many, many people not only accepted the lie that Khelif is female, but did a lot of shaming of the women he beat up, and women who stood up and said it was wrong.

I'm wondering at what point the penny might start to drop for them.

Will they ever grasp they were cheering on a male punching women? Will they care?

Oh I think they have grasped that, they actually like seeing a woman beaten by a man.

puffyisgood · 02/06/2025 07:22

IK is reasonably active on social media so I expect we'll soon see her say how she's looking forward to putting this speculation to bed by proving her womanhood. Any time now...

ItsCoolForCats · 02/06/2025 07:25

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 22:26

This is a very good article, thank you for posting it eatfigs and nauticant.

I know I'm in a tiny tiny minority here, but I have a degree of regard, thought not exactly sympathy, for IK. I've always believed that he WAS assumed to be a girl from birth, and brought up as a girl - a very tomboyish girl, and in a rural community, where a girl who can lend a hand at the heavy work around the place is useful - and that he was taken up and used by the political and sporting classes when he was young and arguably unaware of his real biological status.

This article confirms that his DSD would have resulted in being identified as female at birth and being brought up a girl.

When it was ascertained that he was in fact male, what he needed was love and support from his family and his mentors to deal with what is a profound discovery for a young person, and a career path outside of women's boxing.
But that would have been detrimental to Algerian national interests, so much had been invested in him, not least financially, so he was led along the mendacious path towards national glory and Olympic gold.

Did IK himself accept the tests that showed he was male? Who knows. His minders, and experts at the renowned Kremlin-Bicetre Hospital in Paris , assured him and everyone else that the tests were wrong and IK was 100% female. Who was he most likely to believe?

At some point IK should have had the self-awareness, courage, wisdom, honesty and integrity to say no to the national political and sporting authorities, to turn down all the funding and the adulation and the medals and the gifts and accept that he is man, instead of an extra-ordinary woman.

I know he is regarded as nothing but a cheat and many posters have said they have zero sympathy for him, and I understand that.

I'm not defending him, but he was not lying when he said he was born and brought up as a girl - the tests show that that would have been the case for someone with his DSD; and at a young age he was caught up in a powerful political machine that was cynically using him and his medical condition for political gain.

It's great that WB has brought in these tests, one way or another they should bring the shameful women's boxing chapter of the IK story to an end.

I do agree with this to an extent. A lot of exploitation has happened due to Khelif's medical situation. I think he probably has had people close to him that were encouraging the situation because there was a lot of money to be made from it. It's quite tragic really. I've wondered how the rest of his life will play out in terms of relationships etc. Caster Semenya has married and has children. I don't know what Khelif's sexual orientation is, but future relationships seem complicated because of his cultural background.

The thing I struggle with about this situation though, is that for all the people who have been insisting that Khelif is 'cisgender female' do they really think that some women (including Martina Navratilova, Nicola Adams, JKR etc) have an issue with Khelif because IK is not 'feminine' enough to be accepted as a woman? Because if you engage a modicum of critical thinking, you would see how ludicrous this is.

fromorbit · 02/06/2025 07:53

The implications of this win are huge. It is important to remember this ONLY happened because a bunch of people refused to accept lies and Terfs mobilised to protest in Belgium and forced World Boxing to do tell the truth.

Khelif and Lin got publicity across the world for winning, BUT now everyone knows that male cheating to take women's prizes is a thing and will always be a thing if we allow it. The news of the lie will spread everywhere. The same news networks that celebrated a man beating up a woman last year now have to deal with the fact they were lying. This story is generating huge clicks and revenue means it will have to be told. This story is not ever going away.

Everyone knew last August that we both men. Journalists saw the reports. The cover up was pathetic.

More sports will be forced to take action to safeguard women's sports now.

This image sums it up.

World boxing to introduce mandatory sex testing.
Shortshriftandlethal · 02/06/2025 08:00

MarieDeGournay · 01/06/2025 22:26

This is a very good article, thank you for posting it eatfigs and nauticant.

I know I'm in a tiny tiny minority here, but I have a degree of regard, thought not exactly sympathy, for IK. I've always believed that he WAS assumed to be a girl from birth, and brought up as a girl - a very tomboyish girl, and in a rural community, where a girl who can lend a hand at the heavy work around the place is useful - and that he was taken up and used by the political and sporting classes when he was young and arguably unaware of his real biological status.

This article confirms that his DSD would have resulted in being identified as female at birth and being brought up a girl.

When it was ascertained that he was in fact male, what he needed was love and support from his family and his mentors to deal with what is a profound discovery for a young person, and a career path outside of women's boxing.
But that would have been detrimental to Algerian national interests, so much had been invested in him, not least financially, so he was led along the mendacious path towards national glory and Olympic gold.

Did IK himself accept the tests that showed he was male? Who knows. His minders, and experts at the renowned Kremlin-Bicetre Hospital in Paris , assured him and everyone else that the tests were wrong and IK was 100% female. Who was he most likely to believe?

At some point IK should have had the self-awareness, courage, wisdom, honesty and integrity to say no to the national political and sporting authorities, to turn down all the funding and the adulation and the medals and the gifts and accept that he is man, instead of an extra-ordinary woman.

I know he is regarded as nothing but a cheat and many posters have said they have zero sympathy for him, and I understand that.

I'm not defending him, but he was not lying when he said he was born and brought up as a girl - the tests show that that would have been the case for someone with his DSD; and at a young age he was caught up in a powerful political machine that was cynically using him and his medical condition for political gain.

It's great that WB has brought in these tests, one way or another they should bring the shameful women's boxing chapter of the IK story to an end.

Yes, Khelif is a victim of circumstance. Identified and brought up 'as a girl' in a poor community and in a society bound by strict gender rules. Then nurtured and utilised by Algerian sports bodies to promote national interests; even though it must have been apparent at puberty that Khelif was not developing as one would expect a girl to do, and instead showing clear signs of male puberty.

Khelif presents and dresses as a man in his everyday life, and only does the 'modelling' and soft focus magazine covers when being promoted by Algerian media ( which in itself is a compromising position to be in)

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