Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

Also entirely missing that a woman going into the men's is not an action that matches a man going into the women's, but one that mirrors it.

You went into those bathrooms as a woman, you didn’t demand that the men pretend you were actually a man, under threat of criminal prosecution.

Transwomen demand access to all female spaces with a side order of stunning and brave worship. Ask Sandy Peggie what happens if you don’t perform.

Toilets and changing rooms aren’t so much a distraction as just one of the many fronts on which women’s rights are being rolled back.

I don’t know why you’d exclude men who don’t identify as women to your meet ups- as long as they’re nice and friends with you.

Which is fine- you’re entitled to have friendship groups of whoever you get along with, but it doesn’t seem ok that everyone has to have the same model for their groups.

If you're questioning what I say about being a female born lesbian feel free to go back to my very first posts years ago, when I was asking for advice about my F-F relationship at the time breaking down.

I was on Mumsnet long before I realised there was a section devoted to transphobia 😊

But yes, in terms of general point there is a very questionable 'transman' doing the rounds at the moment on here isn't there? 😂

Is there a reliable source for your frankly incredulous statistics?

But yes, in terms of general point there is a very questionable 'transman' doing the rounds at the moment on here isn't there? 😂

Who do you mean @suggestionsplease1 ?

You should see our social media inboxes.

Actually, you shouldn't - I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Pure cognitohazard.

You never really get used to the death threats and the variations on 'I can't wait until we can put you in the ovens, but you could save us the trouble right now.' and reading three or four of them before lunchtime can really sour your day. The majority of those seem to be from people with an interest in presenting themselves as male who seem to enjoy the whole Nazi-larping power fantasy thing but the really nasty, trying-to-get-under-your-skin stuff often comes from the obvious 'gender critical' sock-puppets that have an air of sweaty desperation to their feverish attempts to get a response.

The weirdest (and most heartbreaking) ones are by far the neggy lesbian chasers who seem to be working through their own stuff by instrumentalising more conventionally attractive trans women as emotional punchbags. Not fun at all.

You're up before lunchtime? 🤔

I think it will leave some annoying/ dangerous things behind it . Like far more ‘all genders ‘ toilets & changing rooms . Which have been shown to pose added risks re voyerism and assault . Also like male radiographers now being allowed to do mammograms. What sort of man wants to specialise in mammograms?

” more conventionally attractive trans women as emotional punchbags.”

😂 stealth brag.

I think that the older second-wavers who actually still believe in radical feminist principles but tripped over their own transphobia are a tiny minority of the GC movement nowadays. It's snowballed far beyond the tiny Raymondist island universe that initially provided the soundbites for the mainstream conservative transphobia of today.

I don't think the Posie Parkers of this world would recognise a genuine strain of feminism if it leapt up and bit them on the nose.

I have a lot of respect for the old school 2nd waver die-hards even if we disagree on a small number of key points. Even though many of them have denied my basic humanity for longer than I've been an adult, we are at least (mostly) pointed in the same direction and communication is sometimes possible.

It's tragic to see how the far right has appropriated it all and turned it into this bizarre abomination where cruelty and hate is an almost fetishistic badge of honour.

Most don’t. Because they’re only attracted to women, that’s kind of the point.

https://www.them.us/story/cis-trans-dating

Virtually all heterosexuals excluded trans folks from their dating pool: only 1.8% of straight women and 3.3% of straight men chose a trans person of either binary gender. But most non-heterosexuals weren’t down for dating a trans person either, with only 11.5% of gay men and 29% of lesbians being trans-inclusive in their dating preferences. Bisexual/queer/nonbinary participants (these were all combined into one group) were most open to having a trans partner, but even among them, almost half (48%) did not select either ‘trans man’ or ‘trans woman.’

So you are expecting sympathy for receiving the same abuse GC women receive? I agree is not nice people calling for your death/punch in the face/decapitation but at least you're not getting those threats from a bigger, stronger sex than you are like we are.

I've no idea what a neggy lesbian chaser is, but why would they be chasing TW who are men and by definition can't be lesbians? It makes no sense.

Mansplaining feminism to women is always such a strong look. Keep it up, Butters, maybe eventually the silly ciswimz will admit you were right all along, and that the current situation is entirely due to them being suckered in by far right rhetoric and absolutely nothing to do with the way transactivists have acted.

I don't think this meant that 60% of girls and 40% of boys identify as trans. That would indeed be ridiculous. It's that 'a lot' (compared with previously) of people do, and of those that do, 60% are female and 40% male.

I agree, I roll my eyes so much they are in danger of coming loose. People have to start ignoring the incoherent, self-absorbed tantrums and just move on. These people are just virtue signalling, they can never make a decent case for their world view.

Why should I believe a self selecting group of men are women, to my own disadvantage as a woman? These people can never answer without emotional blackmail. It’s not convincing.

What shows me that the people on this thread claiming to be on the side of love and understanding are outright lying, is that when they are asked to engage with - really look at - women being threatened, their response is usually '..... I have it bad, you know'.

Their stance on things like that slur website, with regards to women, is .... nothing.

The dishonesty is loud and clear.

Mansplaining feminism to women is always such a strong look.
Well said @teawamutu

Also "ciswimz" 😂

Facebook appears to be largely populated by pondlife (outside the serious private groups) so I wouldn't use that as any sort of measure.

I'm a member of a few great autoimmunity support groups and only yesterday was chatting with another member who had been told on a public group that her AI disease was her own fault and that and she could fix it completely with diet 🙄

These idiots walk among us and I wouldn't be surprised if there's a larger cohort than average of twaw etc believers on there.

I think the OP is ultimately right.

On the one hand the government is too cowardly to change the law. So the law remains.

On the other hand we have a bunch of women who have had their lawful rights withheld and now have the financial backing to potent challenge this, insurance companies watching this nervously, the public who are becoming increasingly aware of the issues and Reform waiting in the wings to capitalise on this and Labour's inaction.

We are not in a neutral position. We need to keep pushing back.

The more the crazy fringe create a nuisance with their silly protests, the more the police will be forced to intervene. If they go further and further (which I suspect they will as court rulings roll in) the government will be forced to start treating it as they treat the climate change protesters as extremists in order to maintain public order.

None of this is an active choice. The situation will only resolve when the forces of this which are already in play as if they are stretched elastic bands have effectively relaxed to a point they don't go 'ping'.

Many young people don't buy into the nonsense. As they grow out of education and as older women they respect say 'this is bollocks' they will increasingly find their voices and the young people who do buy into it will grow up and have responsibilities which means devotion to the nonsense will quietly evaporate.

Other countries will all ultimately have their cliff edge point in one way or another. It will happen.

The fall out isn't going to be pretty though.

Sadly I think not, but even if they did get over it they’ll always come up with something new. Some men have a deep hatred of women, that’s why they kill them.

I find the puerile signs and chants inciting violence against anyone to be disgusting and have no interest in thuggish behaviour. I have always been a peaceful, law-abiding person - sometimes to the frustration of others!

I do also acknowledge that there comes a point where it is no longer possible to protect yourself with words alone, and history holds no shortage of examples of those who were unable to stop atrocities or prevent discrimination and marginalisation by asking nicely.

I will continue to ask to be allowed to live in dignity, treated like a full human being, until it either no longer works or there is no cause for it.

We, just this month, commemorated the end of a very significant period of history where asking people nicely not to genocide minorities demonstrably wasn't enough.

As has been posted this won't just go away.

All you have to do is look at what is currently going on in Australia, a country which seems to have completely bought in to trans.

You also only need to look at the USA which has clearly defined trans safe states and are ignoring the section ix laws especially with regard to sports to the extent that trans-girls and women are not even trying to hide their advantage. .

Eh? PP has never claimed feminism
and none of that addresses any point I made at all. Feminism is for women. All the rest of that crap is just that. Crap. You’re still trying to frame women who say no to you as far right. It’s bollocks. The most progressive women I’ve ever known (by which I mean true progressives not this nonsensical cohort of identity twats) know that trans ideology is the most regressive embracing of harmful stereotypes ever. It’s not right wing to know you cannot ever be a woman. And for the love of god, denying you’re a woman is not denying your humanity. Stop pretending people telling you you are male is ‘putting you in the ovens’. Out of interest, got any evidence of that? Because I’ve seen pages and pages of rape and death threats from TRAs towards women and really nothing ever of the sort you’re suggesting you get 4 times a day. And don’t pretend you are protecting our eyes by not sharing. You’d be wearing it on a t shirt if it was real to keep shoring up the Most Marginalised (TM) myth if they existed.

I do also acknowledge that there comes a point where it is no longer possible to protect yourself with words alone, and history holds no shortage of examples of those who were unable to stop atrocities or prevent discrimination and marginalisation by asking nicely.

I will continue to ask to be allowed to live in dignity, treated like a full human being, until it either no longer works or there is no cause for it.

We, just this month, commemorated the end of a very significant period of history where asking people nicely not to genocide minorities demonstrably wasn't enough.

Oh FFS. Dial down the hyperbole and just use the men's room.