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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

1000 replies

loveyouradvice · 26/05/2025 23:04

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:15

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:06

It's so bloody illogical. Even while these men are staying it out loud.

The definition of a woman never starts with the words 'a man who...'

It never involves disliking your penis, hating your male body, not wanting to inhabit male stereotypes or being a male homosexual.

To these men, women are not normal, human people, with their lives, anatomy and experiences.

We are just a fantasy in their head.

It must be really fucking annoying that we have suddenly become real, materialised, and said no fuck off out of our spaces.

Christ, Datun. 'Male homosexual'

Really?

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2025 18:15

WithSilverBells · 28/05/2025 18:00

The ideology will eat its adherents now. We can see it already on MN and Twix. I'd get the popcorn, but I can't stand the stuff

And going back to the original OP, that's yet another reason why I think it will all implode.

There isn't enough broad support to change the law. The undermining of the law will be dealt with in court.
And there will be fracturing of the movement.

It is like Brexit in political composition for many reasons.

The wall of reality was a feature in that too.

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2025 18:17

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:15

Christ, Datun. 'Male homosexual'

Really?

Women can be homosexuals too.

Amazing how they all get forgotten.

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:18

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:15

Christ, Datun. 'Male homosexual'

Really?

Is there something offensive about 'Male Homosexual'?

Its a fair description, although not often used.

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2025 18:20

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:18

Is there something offensive about 'Male Homosexual'?

Its a fair description, although not often used.

Butters is trying to point score again.

Badly.

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:21

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:18

Is there something offensive about 'Male Homosexual'?

Its a fair description, although not often used.

It's right up there with men who steadfastly refer to women as 'females' at all times

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:21

akkakk · 28/05/2025 18:11

Very happy to correct you.

You are exactly what society defines as men:

  • someone born male, over the age of 18.
It is literally the very definition of a man

Initiating treatment before reaching adulthood undoubtedly means that you didn't experience adolescence in exactly the same way as all other boys, but you were still born male / born a boy and grew up to become a man.

You both accept that you were born male - born as boys.
All a boy has to do to then become a man is wait 18 years - the man v. boy difference is simply passing your 18th birthday.

Your 'interiority' and experience of your 'transness' does modulate that experience I agree - but not from boy to girl or boy to woman or man to woman... it simply modulates it to a different set of experiences as a boy / man

you are simply a man who has gone through your set of experiences (your lived reality if you like), but all that does is make you a unique man - as with every other man - we are all unique, it would be boring if we were not.

The aspects of you that reject what society labels as 'typically male' simply expand society's notion of how to define a man - if you like, they extend the gender definition for men...

Let us use an example - if all men go out from the cave and hunt, while women stay in the cave and look after the children - then we have two clear societal stereotypes:

  • men hunt
  • women do childcare
If though Ug Junior decides that his career will be to become the cave accountant - recording the number of dinosaurs killed by other men in pictures on the cave wall, then that doesn't mean that Ug is not a man (because he doesn't fit the stereotype of 'men hunt') instead it extends the stereotype to:
  • men hunt
  • men record kills on cave wall
  • women do childcare
Now if we go further and find that little Ug Junior's brother, Thud growing up prefers to look after the children, and doesn't wish to hunt or paint pictures on the cave wall - that doesn't make little Thud a woman - it extends the society definition of men - similarly if little Ugette their sister would rather hunt, then again, she doesn't become a man - she helps to redefine society stereotypes once again, and now you have:
  • men hunt
  • men paint pictures on cave wall
  • men do childcare
  • women do childcare
  • women hunt

and this is how gender works - it is a societal construct... so when you talk about your experiences as a boy forming who you are as an adult - they form the new man you become - you help to extend the societal understanding of what it can mean to be a man - away from narrow stereotypes - which is really healthy for society... because the reality is that they are stereotypes, not rules - they are standard patterns, not prescription.

but at no point do your experiences ever inform you on anything to do with being a woman - you can never understand what that means for the simple reality that you can never be a woman - all you can do is feel a stronger association towards how society describes a woman (perfectly acceptable), and mimic it (acceptable to a degree, not including body mutilation or forcing your way into women only spaces, or trying to live a lie that you are actually a woman) - but that doesn't make you a woman - it just makes you your type of man.

Accurate though that post is, you're making the mistake of thinking these men give a flying fuck about what it actually means to be a woman.

Absolutely, they don't know, they have no fucking clue.

But crucially, they couldn't care less.

Actual women are nowhere in this.

WithSilverBells · 28/05/2025 18:21

AYoungTransWoman · 28/05/2025 17:53

Literally this. Idc what stereotypes I exhibit im still a woman. 90% of the time I'm wearing whatevers practical and comfy aha

You are a man. You are a trans-identified male. There is absolutely nothing you can ever say or do that will make you a woman. There is nothing you can ever say or do that will move you even one inch closer to being a woman. Sex is binary in mammals. There is no spectrum. The words woman and female are taken. We are not giving them to you

Helleofabore · 28/05/2025 18:22

"It was clearly trying to achieve something, just like the person who flashed an official meeting a some years ago. I think she must have been trying to prove a point. Not sure what it was though. Just looked like an obnoxious bigot doing a bit of transphobic posturing against a marginalised minority to me."

Readers note:

I believe that this refers to Elaine Miller, Gussie Grips. Who lifted her skirt in Scottish Parliament to reveal .... a merkin and skin coloured tights!

She said this: “If this parliament will not respect the rights of women, then you have no decency. And if you will not be decent, towards women who are being raped right now in jails that you are in charge of, if you will not be decent, then I will be indecent.”

But of course, she was not indecent at all.

She was however protesting a vote in parliament that has been shelved due to several reasons, and caused significant political damage to Nicola Sturgeon. After all, it would have allowed rapist Isla Bryson to be placed in a female prison.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/police-inquiry-into-fake-pubic-hair-flashing-incident-at-holyrood-after-gender-recognition-reforms-passed

It pays to read up on such accusations.

Of course, I can only assume that this is the incident. Happy to be corrected though.

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:23

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:21

It's right up there with men who steadfastly refer to women as 'females' at all times

So its not, OK .

And Just another quick question.

Why are you allowed to say how other people are defined?
Just because you want to co-opt a label for yourself doesn't mean that you get to do it for everybody.

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:24

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:15

Christ, Datun. 'Male homosexual'

Really?

Well yes, because it's not a female homosexual, duh

Although I'm not surprised that you find the term offensive

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:24

WithSilverBells · 28/05/2025 18:21

You are a man. You are a trans-identified male. There is absolutely nothing you can ever say or do that will make you a woman. There is nothing you can ever say or do that will move you even one inch closer to being a woman. Sex is binary in mammals. There is no spectrum. The words woman and female are taken. We are not giving them to you

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

WithSilverBells · 28/05/2025 18:28

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:24

Ok thanks for clearing that up.

You are very welcome

akkakk · 28/05/2025 18:29

AYoungTransWoman · 28/05/2025 17:53

Literally this. Idc what stereotypes I exhibit im still a woman. 90% of the time I'm wearing whatevers practical and comfy aha

Nope - literally you are a man.

I appreciate that it is a challenging concept to understand, so I have drawn up a little flow chart to help - took less than 5 minutes. I have done it from a male perspective to help you... (most women don't seem to need this...)

(it may take a few minutes for the image to appear)

Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us?  A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??
Datun · 28/05/2025 18:30

akkakk · 28/05/2025 18:29

Nope - literally you are a man.

I appreciate that it is a challenging concept to understand, so I have drawn up a little flow chart to help - took less than 5 minutes. I have done it from a male perspective to help you... (most women don't seem to need this...)

(it may take a few minutes for the image to appear)

Literal genocide

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:30

Helleofabore · 28/05/2025 18:22

"It was clearly trying to achieve something, just like the person who flashed an official meeting a some years ago. I think she must have been trying to prove a point. Not sure what it was though. Just looked like an obnoxious bigot doing a bit of transphobic posturing against a marginalised minority to me."

Readers note:

I believe that this refers to Elaine Miller, Gussie Grips. Who lifted her skirt in Scottish Parliament to reveal .... a merkin and skin coloured tights!

She said this: “If this parliament will not respect the rights of women, then you have no decency. And if you will not be decent, towards women who are being raped right now in jails that you are in charge of, if you will not be decent, then I will be indecent.”

But of course, she was not indecent at all.

She was however protesting a vote in parliament that has been shelved due to several reasons, and caused significant political damage to Nicola Sturgeon. After all, it would have allowed rapist Isla Bryson to be placed in a female prison.

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/police-inquiry-into-fake-pubic-hair-flashing-incident-at-holyrood-after-gender-recognition-reforms-passed

It pays to read up on such accusations.

Of course, I can only assume that this is the incident. Happy to be corrected though.

Edited

Strange how transwoman flashing everyone is so brave and making political points like the trans woman at the Whitehouse who got her breasts because because they got over excited. (Is it transphobic that they have been banned?)

Or the weird Moobs protest
Or pissing in bottles.

Isn't the double standard just so noticeable.

RainbowZebraWarrior · 28/05/2025 18:30

Indeed. My DD uses Gay and Lesbian interchangeably as those words describe her sexuality. As do all the female gay women I know. But also, Gay and Homosexual (attracted to people of the same sex) has been used for decades to describe what same sex attraction means. Everyone is clear what these terms mean. So by default, a male homosexual is a gay man. A female homosexual is a gay or lesbian woman.

Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us?  A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??
Datun · 28/05/2025 18:31

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:30

Strange how transwoman flashing everyone is so brave and making political points like the trans woman at the Whitehouse who got her breasts because because they got over excited. (Is it transphobic that they have been banned?)

Or the weird Moobs protest
Or pissing in bottles.

Isn't the double standard just so noticeable.

And when Gussie did it, it was tights and a wig.

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:33

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:31

And when Gussie did it, it was tights and a wig.

Yup, no skin showing at all.

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:33

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:24

Well yes, because it's not a female homosexual, duh

Although I'm not surprised that you find the term offensive

Do you regularly refer to people as "homosexuals" in the year of our lord 2025?

I'm not homosexual by any definition, however you frame it, so it's already technically inaccurate. Nothing else has quite the same regressive old-world Blanchardist ring to it, though, does it?

Weird how quickly DSD entered GC parlance, but we just have to hold onto the classics here, don't we?

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:34

It doesn't surprise me that trans identifying men don't like the homosexual. It's generic. And gender neutral.

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2025 18:34

RainbowZebraWarrior · 28/05/2025 18:30

Indeed. My DD uses Gay and Lesbian interchangeably as those words describe her sexuality. As do all the female gay women I know. But also, Gay and Homosexual (attracted to people of the same sex) has been used for decades to describe what same sex attraction means. Everyone is clear what these terms mean. So by default, a male homosexual is a gay man. A female homosexual is a gay or lesbian woman.

Transwomen have been trying to erase female homosexuals. It's very amusing that Butters tried to pick up Datun on refering to a male homosexual as if the only homosexuals can be male.

Another day, another shoe size.

RedToothBrush · 28/05/2025 18:35

ButterflyHatched · 28/05/2025 18:33

Do you regularly refer to people as "homosexuals" in the year of our lord 2025?

I'm not homosexual by any definition, however you frame it, so it's already technically inaccurate. Nothing else has quite the same regressive old-world Blanchardist ring to it, though, does it?

Weird how quickly DSD entered GC parlance, but we just have to hold onto the classics here, don't we?

This isn't getting any better.

WithSilverBells · 28/05/2025 18:35

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:34

It doesn't surprise me that trans identifying men don't like the homosexual. It's generic. And gender neutral.

...and it references same sex attraction

FrippEnos · 28/05/2025 18:35

Datun · 28/05/2025 18:34

It doesn't surprise me that trans identifying men don't like the homosexual. It's generic. And gender neutral.

Its strange that they are happy with 'queer' though, which is highly offensive to many gays and lesbians.

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