Am I naive in thinking that in a couple of years, if not sooner, this will all be behind us? A few court cases, people clear about the law, women's rights protected again??

[loveyouradvice]

And yes the noisy TRA far fewer in number and sidelined as the sad fringe that are left as others move on.....

Or do others think it will pan out differently??

Dear God, we have yet another gobshite proclaiming “that’s not how biology works” 🙄
Male, naturally.

I suspect that there will be only crickets to my post though.

It is really quite interesting how the accusations just keep coming though. I am constantly obsessed, behaving oddly or whatever word is handy and on and on it goes. Yet, then comes the wheedling posts of 'nothing I do or say is accepted' referring to me not accepting that any male person should be treated as if they are a female person where sex matters. Or allowing any male person to have their needs prioritised above female people's where sex matters.

You beat me to it Flirts and @TangenitalContrivences and @Helleofabore made excellent posts refuting that BMC report on that other thread.

Well I am glad that you are accepting that the issue is a mental health issue - and not a physical one. You weren't born into the wrong body / don't have the wrong physical sex characteristics - you simply have a mental health issue - and I think that is very accurate...

When you reframe the discussion as a male with a mental health issue, then it becomes important to treat the mental health issue - not provide hormones / surgery to damage the body. That you have been lied to and given the wrong 'treatment' is incredibly sad and upsetting - that we have a society that damages our young people in this way is an indictment on all of society, we should ever have allowed it to happen. Instead we should have been recognising the lie that was being propagated in telling young people that they could change sex and we should have been treating the underlying body dysmorphia - which I totally understand that someone can have.

Incidentally it is body dysmorphia not gender dysmorphia - gender is a fluid concept created as a societal stereotype of the moment which develops entirely based on being challenged and changed by men and women presenting differently and redefining how society sees that stereotype. Dysmorphia: First recorded in 1845–50; from Greek dysmorphía “misshapenness, ugliness,” equivalent to prefix dys- “hard, bad, unlucky” + morphḗ “form, shape” You can not therefore have gender dysmorphia - because however you present is how your gender becomes defined - you can choose your gender on an individual basis and define your part of 'what is a man'. You can feel dysmorphic about societal expectations, but as you are free to be the man you want, your own choice of how you express gender is solely yours, so it is not technically possible to be dysmorphic about it!

It is an immutable fact that you are born one sex and can not change it - so any chemicals / hormones / surgery can only every change the impression - it is a way of pretending to be what you are not - but you can not change and be the other sex.

The fact that you refer to yourself as a 'transwoman' is itself defining and acknowledging that such a transition is impossible - if you were able to switch sex then you would simply be a woman - but you are not, you are a man.

No man has ever changed their body construct physically or genetically to being a woman - they can't change their gametes / they can't become pregnant, or give birth, or have a period, or have eggs, they can't breast feed (and no, secretions do not count!)

So, we are back to needing to bring compassion and accurate medical care into the situation - and this should be treating the mental health issue you identify - that it hasn't is a failure of the system and that is deeply sad.

Mansplaining junk science is only underlining the male behaviour.

Silly little women, not understanding and rolling over to agree.

Conversion therapy is torture, and I cannot wait for it to be banned in the UK. For you to advocate for that, knowing the immense harm it causes is frankly horrifying.

Transition is the only way. Aligning the body with the mind in trans people is the documented solution. To claim otherwise, is medical misinformation.

I am a woman, who is trans. Not the other way around.

AYoungTransWoman

Do you know why you have gender dysphoria? If you're going to spend the rest of your life on medication which has proven side-effects and could be life limiting, do you even know why you have it?

I am off to read that other thread that @FlirtsWithRhinos posted. Because I don't think I have read that thread and I want to see what people have written.

It is remarkable really that people put so much stock in a paper that has a very clear bias. And as I said on one of the threads, it is great to have papers written from all angles, but if the evidence supporting the conclusion doesn't stand up to scrutiny, it really doesn't stand up to scrutiny and the bias then becomes the weak support for a paper outlining that bias.

That is all that paper is. It seems flawed from the get go.

Aren't surgery and unnecessary hormones just a type of physical conversion therapy?

I am sorry you received such poor treatment for your mental health condition.

I was born with it. There has never been a moment in my life where I have thought I was anything other than a girl/woman. I have no idea why I feel like this, I just know that I do.

And if you could, for instance, take some kind of miracle cure to get rid of it, would you?

No, actual conversion therapy is an incredibly harmful thing to do.

Transition is the medically documented way to relieve feelings of Gender Dysphoria.

No, therapy isn’t torture. Talking about your feelings and your dysphoria can help. Transition is not the only way. It is the way for a tiny number of people.

You’re a trans woman, as you’ve said above. That means you’re male. You have gender dysphoria. You are not and will not ever be a woman. A transwoman, yes, if you don’t want to be called a boy/man, but you cannot change sex.

At this point, I'm too far into my transition. But if I were back at the begining? Maybe, probably even. Dysphoria is an incredibly painful thing to live with and I wouldn't wish it on anyone.

Unfortunately, we don't get a choice.

No, it is not! Approx 85% of gender dysphoria resolves - without transition.

I have had therapy, it helped me concrete who I am and process my feelings of dysphoria.

That wasn't conversion "therapy". Because conversion "therapy" is torture and should be treated as such in law.

There is absolutely no evidence that conversion therapy is being used on trans-identifying people in the UK. Being supported to consider your mental health issues and their causes and what they mean is not conversion therapy. Unless we're inflicting conversion therapy on all the people who believe they're Napoleon or Elvis, are we?

Transition can never do what you want it to do. You will never be a woman, humans can't change sex. You cannot align your body with your mind because there is no 'woman' mind that matches a woman body. Think about the women you know, are they all the same, do they all think the same?

You are and always will be male, nothing in medicine or surgery or wishful thinking can ever change that. Be whatever kind of man you are, like what you like, wear what you like, have at it. Noe of that can or does make you a woman. Sorry you've been lied to.

Conversion therapy was not mentioned.

No, you are not a woman who happens to be trans. You are a man who feels like he is a woman despite having no real insight into what being a woman feels like, because you're a man.

Believe me I am aware I'm not going to become a cis woman. I know that, and that sucks.

But being a trans woman is the closest I will ever reasonably get, and that's more than worth it.

Would you like to summarise the findings of this report please? Since you are relying on it to support your arguments here.

Since it is a new report, I think it is appropriate for you to point out the parts that you feel is important for us to consider.

Thank you

Got it.

Although, I have never seen any kind of medical analysis that agrees people are born with gender dysphoria.

Only as a symptom.

Hence the characteristics of those showing up at gender clinics.

Mostly girls. Same sex attracted, those with past sexual trauma, autistic children, children from care homes and, rather upsettingly, those with a sex offender for a parent.

I don't think there's anything to suggest it's a congenital condition.

There’s no such thing as a “cis woman”. Only female people are women, in life and in law.

Conversion therapy is torture, and I cannot wait for it to be banned in the UK. For you to advocate for that, knowing the immense harm it causes is frankly horrifying.

Who is suggesting conversion therapy? You are the one advocating to convert what can't be converted... Dealing with mental health issues is a very individual and nuanced need and approach - to suggest that it is conversion therapy is to suggest that the boy is in reality a girl and you are trying to convert 'her' away... rather than acknowledging the reality that the boy is a boy and can only be a boy, so the treatment is to help them come to acceptance that they are and will always be a boy - that is to deal with the mental health issues...

Transition is the only way. Aligning the body with the mind in trans people is the documented solution. To claim otherwise, is medical misinformation.

It is sad to see such misunderstanding.

• The body can not be changed - born male, always male / born female, always female.
• The mind can though play tricks on the person - and can be wrong - hence it is a mental (of the mind) illness (not healthy and true)

So, you can only ever align the mind with the body - it is not scientifically possible to align the body with the mind - therefore the treatment is to treat the mind - not butcher the body.

You mention 'transition' before puberty had finished - presumably therefore starting before you were 18 - if so, then there is no way to understand this other than as child abuse - no-one is going to blame you for that, there are those (parents / medics / etc.) who have a duty of care over minors, safeguarding etc. To allow this to happen to a minor is child abuse - it will be one of the largest scandals we will see...

I am a woman, who is trans. Not the other way around.

I am confused 😉You refer to yourself as a transwoman - that usually means someone born male. As we all know that sex can not be changed, that would mean that you are still male.

Do you instead mean that you were born female, and have 'transitioned' to male? That would normally be referred to as a transman.

If you were born male, then you can not make that statement - a man can never be a woman - biological / immutable / confirmed in law / confirmed by the Supreme Court in their recent judgement. Sex can not change. Ever.

There's no such thing as a cis woman. Women are not a subset of our own sex.

You have no way to 'feel like a woman' because a man cannot feel like a woman. Woman isn't a feeling. It's a biological fact like having size 8 feet or being left handed. It says nothing about you as a person, there isn't a woman personality any more than there's a size 8 feet personality or a left handed one.

Sorry you've been lied to.

Transition is the medically documented way to relieve feelings of Gender Dysphoria.

But surely that is only if you believe that gender=sex. You believe that women have female bodies, and you wish to get your body as close to that as possible.

This is what I cannot understand - how this is reconciled with "a woman isn't the physical body, it's an identity/ feeling/your soul, regardless of the body" and that to believe gender=sex and women are female is transphobic.

I know it won't happen but if any TW can shed any light (in concrete, non-pomo language) I'd be grateful.