I stuck my head above the parapet

[RedCrochetedWigFace]

So I work for a smallish company but we have a few different branches throughout the country. I think each branch has a least one trans woman. I've no idea if we've any transmen. They don't make as much of a drama and noise if we do.

There is a staff group who are generally well meaning but they've started kicking off about how awful the supreme court ruling is blah blah blah. They are mostly women. I tried respectfully pointing out that no-one has lost any rights and that it's actually protecting women's rights.

I said that I want any trans people to feel comfortable at work and if that's not the case then action absolutely needs to be taken but that the supreme court judgement shouldn't make a difference to that. Someone said what about the "ugly women who look like men" who were dragged out of women's toilets. I said that was an awful thing to call a woman and misogynist. I was accused of avoiding the question. They said that the ruling meant that women who don't look/present as women will also suffer and seemed to think that undermined the argument that no ones rights were being negatively impacted.

I just reiterated that anyone feeling unsafe at work needs support regardless of gender/perceived gender or any other factor. I asked what the group wanted to achieve. They said they want trans people to feel safe at work. I dont think I hid my exasperation.

I'm pretty sure I was respectful throughout. I tried to be.

Now I have a meeting with my manager and HR on Tuesday. I have spoken with ACAS. It's not a formal meeting so I'm not allowed to take anyone in with me.

FFS.

IDK if this will help but remember you are protected by The Equality Act. It is an offence to harass or victimise you, based on your protected characteristics of belief and sex.

Maybe you could suggest that the workplace should be professional, and in the future personal conversations should avoid issues like politics and religion that could cause distress or arguments.

26 Harassment
(1)A person (A) harasses another (B) if—
(a)A engages in unwanted conduct related to a relevant protected characteristic, and
(b)the conduct has the purpose or effect of—
(i)violating B's dignity, or
(ii)creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for B.

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/26

27 Victimisation
(1)A person (A) victimises another person (B) if A subjects B to a detriment because—
(a)B does a protected act, or
(b)A believes that B has done, or may do, a protected act.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/27

i would say your misogyny is never from the surface but it actually is your surface isn’t it

Are you being serious? This isn't... You can't... There has to be...

Actually. Never mind. I can't wait to see how this all plays out for you guys. Good luck getting an employer to exclude trans people in the first place. Most orgs are just ignoring the screeching transphobes and their wacko demands lol

Not sure if this is helpful OP and I haven’t been able to rtft, but I would raise the point that in light of the clarification of the law, you are hoping that men in the company will ensure that they are welcoming to TW in male facilities.

Calling out your ignorance and transphobia is misogynist? Do you ever actually try that nonsense outside of your echo chamber?

Look at you pretending that 'keep your conversation at work professional and non contentious' somehow secretly means 'ban trans people from the workplace'!

Do you have any better arguments for why a self selecting group of men should be treated as women @AzureCritic or is that it?

Wrong.

No UK Supreme Court judgment has definitively clarified the meanings of "man," "woman," and "sex" in the Equality Act 2010 as universally fixed since 2010 (in fact the judgement made clear that was not their place), and you exaggerate the ruling's finality, as future cases or legislative amendments could reinterpret these terms and you're misrepresenting the judicial process for challenges.

But please tell me more, you expert.

Why do men's toilets have urinals and women's have tampax machines and bins for sanitary products? Its a mystery.

And (judging by your posts) you're presenting as an emotionally incontinent, anti woman, abusive male. Might want to work on finding some intellectual arguments & social skills if you want to discuss with adults. 😄

I guess that’s a no.

Oh, the irony

I couldn't care less what you think lol, take your sneering and condescending mean girl bullying attitude and do one. You have no power over me.

Transphobia is a movement of narcisstic bullies

You haven't posted a single explanation as to why/how transwomen are women.

You're just insulting people randomly.

https://sex-matters.org/about-us/

Get advice from Naomi Cunningham's charity, Sex Matters, they'll help you prepare for the meeting.

It’s all they have @murasaki

At least one transwoman per branch? Really, what’s the business?

My money's on Lush.

Turtles all the way down.

Now I have a meeting with my manager and HR on Tuesday. I have spoken with ACAS. It's not a formal meeting so I'm not allowed to take anyone in with me.

OP was your manager at the meeting where it happened?

Has the company made any kind of statement following the judgement? Some companies have sent all-staff emails setting out the position. It sounds like the higher ups haven't sought to set the tone here, or manage how this will play out among the staff, and so it's been left to come up in an ad hoc way. If HR and others were doing their job properly they would recognise that different ppl will have different (legitimate) views on it but its also potentially difficult to navigate and they should avoid it causing discontent between employees. But to do that the starting point must surely be that they are upholding everyone's legal rights, and everyone needs to feel confident in that.

Its difficult to know what they are thinking before you speak to them. In an ideal world thet would be trying to make sure you were OK and didn't feel got at because you were a lone voice in disagreement. I expect its not an ideal world and you should follow others' advice on how to approach the actual meeting.