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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

SC-Fuelled Bathroom Aggression

853 replies

BisiBodi · 15/05/2025 06:38

Firstly, this thread is for open discussion on a specific topic, stated at the end. It is not a thread that sits in judgement, or calls for people to sit in judgement, of the Supreme Court finding.

Now, read that first sentence again before proceeding.

So, I am posting this with the full permission of the individual concerned, whose photograph - again posted with their permission - is on the thread. The reason for that photograph will become evident soon.

Caz is a cis woman and a very, very successful music producer and DJ in London. She has recently been very vocal online about a recent incident that was almost certainly created as a result of the SC ruling and the subsequent interpretation by certain members of society. Here is her original post:

"This photo of me was taken a few days ago. This is what I look like, not that it matters, but to set the scene…
I was at the Festival Hall. Toilets on either side of two lifts - men’s on one side, women’s on the other. I was in the queue for the women’s. Men were queueing across from me.
I was facing into the bathroom, so from behind, you couldn’t see my face. I was just standing there, minding my business, when I heard someone shout,
“The men’s toilets are over here!”
I ignored it at first thinking someone was letting their mate know. But he kept shouting it "The men's toilet are this side!". Then I felt a tap on my shoulder, (meaning he came into the corridor of the women's toilets), he poked me and said
“Do you realise this is the women’s toilet?!”
Up to that point, he hadn’t seen my face. So what was he judging me on? My haircut? My hoodie?
Also, I was surrounded by women. It was pretty obvious I knew which toilet it was.
His energy was aggressive. I was shocked. I looked him straight in the face and asked: “What sex do you think I am?” Affronted he said: “I don’t know!”
Here’s where I wish I’d said, “If you don’t know, then shut the f**k up!”
But instead, I said: “Would you like to see my tits?”
I started unzipping my hoodie. He panicked: “No no no, don’t do that!”
His wife came out of the loo and saw what was going down and said with urgency, “Let’s go now!.”
She rushed him away before all the ladies around me could properly react. They were horrified by what they saw. One lovely lady said to me, "I can’t believe what I just saw!" Another one said, “I am so, so sorry you had to experience that. I held back from speaking up till it was too late because when he came and touched you, I thought he must have known you.” Another woman said, "You are welcome here!" and yet another said, "You must report him and get him kicked out!" I stood there, shocked, and unfortunately didn’t react quickly enough.
What’s interesting is that he wasn’t a staff member. He was just a random member of the public.
Also, my attire was more on the masculine side. So if he thought I was a trans woman, why would I be dressing like a man? If he thought I was a trans man, then under the new rules, I was in the right toilet!
His policing was based on my hair? My clothes? Maybe I had cancer? Or maybe I just like my hair that way. What makes him think any of that gives him the right to behave like that?!
It is fair to say also that I could have been a butch trans women but that is the whole point, you can't judge from a hair cut several meters away and its not anyone's place to.
For the record, I’m not offended by being thought to be a man. I have a strong male energy, (female too sometimes!). However I often feel if I could press a button and turn into a man I might, I don’t feel like I’ve earned the right to call myself trans, given the immense things people go through to be right in their body… but in spirit perhaps I am. Asides this I am a 100% biological born unchanged female.
What was offensive was his assumption that this kind of behaviour is OK.
This is what these new laws and rules are doing — they’re not making it safer for everyone. They’re fuelling public entitlement and policing of gender expression.
Afterwards, I tried to find them. I thought maybe it would help to have a conversation. To understand. Did he think he was protecting his wife? What made him do that?
I’ve been meaning to speak out on this issue for a while. But I’ve had a lot going on, it’s been a difficult time and I haven’t felt I had the head space.
In a strange way, I’m grateful for this moment. It gave me the push I needed to finally say something.
I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them. I wish I’d got to talk to that guy… open conversations are needed to understand what fears are fuelling their prejudice."

Again, the purpose of this thread is not to pass judgement on whether the SC ruling was right or wrong, everybody has their own opinions on that, but rather to open a dialogue on - and raise awareness of - the effect that that ruling is having on the small but disproportionately loud and aggressive members of society, and the fear being generated as a result.

Speaking personally, I am hearing many reports of bathroom aggression - perpetrated by both men and women - against anyone who doesn't 'look right', regardless of the facts or a sense of common respect for others.
Now that the ruling has passed, I think that as women the best we can do here - the absolute bare minimum if we want to consider ourselves reasonable, respectful members of society - is to be aware that this kind of horror does happen and is happening, and to call out that bullshit if we encounter it.

I'd be interested in your thoughts...

SC-Fuelled Bathroom Aggression
OP posts:
Thread gallery
7
Soontobe60 · 15/05/2025 06:44

You lost me at ‘cis woman’. Also, the photo you’ve posted is clearly that of a female. But nice try.

LizzieSiddal · 15/05/2025 06:47

Caz is very clearly a woman, she looks like a woman and every woman around her in the queue knew she was a woman and supported her. She handled it well.
I’m not sure what she’s complaining about.

CatietteX · 15/05/2025 06:48

I agree that it’s very upsetting indeed that gender ideology has reduced being female to external appearance and forced females using single-sex spaces to be alert to potential interlopers in a way they weren’t before. It’s a bloody tragedy that an ideology that claims to expand boundaries and break binaries has led directly to previously unheard of anxiety, and associated cynical claims of confusion.

Igneococcus · 15/05/2025 06:48

Very clearly a woman in that picture and it will be even clearer when seen in real.
The use of "cis" kills any attempt at having a meaningful discussion stone dead.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr · 15/05/2025 06:49

One man being aggressive towards a woman does not make the Supreme Court ruling a mistake. It just means he is one of the many aggressive/violent male-bodied people that we want to keep out of our safe spaces.

The photo is so obviously of a woman. The man was an arsehole.

TeenToTwenties · 15/05/2025 06:50

So. An aggressive man entered the womens.
The picture is obviously female.

At least he was trying to protect womens spaces, given his wife was in there. Though he went about it the wrong way.

This is nothing to do with the SC ruling, and all to do with the fact that some men have felt entitled to use women's toilets in recent years.
If TW follow the ruling and stay out, this hysteria (if real) will die down.

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/05/2025 06:52

1: ‘Cis’ is a stupid concept which assumes that everyone has a gender identity.

2: It’s obviously ridiculous to think that woman is a man.

3: The ‘disproportionately loud and aggressive members of society’ would be the men who insist they’re still going to use women’s toilets.

Igneococcus · 15/05/2025 06:54

I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them. I wish I’d got to talk to that guy… open conversations are needed to understand what fears are fuelling their prejudice.

Blimey, that is quite some condescencion on show here.

Helleofabore · 15/05/2025 06:54

There are plenty of us on this board who have been asked in the past if we were male or female. Of course it happens.

However, that it happens shouldn’t be used to allow male people into single sex spaces. The person who approached this woman went too far. They should not, as a male person, have approached the woman in the women’s queue in that way. If there was doubt, they should have approached security.

What are your suggestions OP. What do you think should happen if someone thinks a male person is accessing a space designated as single sex for female people.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/05/2025 06:54

and this is women’s fault how?

also isn’t it astonishing how when the TRA were ‘winning’ and getting everything they wanted this didn’t happen and now they’re definitely not, well gosh darn it women with short hair are being challenged in women’s toilets 10, 20 possibly even 100 times a day , who knows????. I mean What are the odds eh??

(And if you want a genuine discussion don’t come into a sex realist space and use the phrase cis woman)

MissScarletInTheBallroom · 15/05/2025 06:54

What are you hoping to get out of this thread, OP?

If trans women had just stayed out of women's spaces in the first place then toilets wouldn't have become a political hot potato.

I also can't imagine that any woman is going to be remotely confused about what sex Caz is.

Igmum · 15/05/2025 06:56

Yup. She’s obviously a woman with short hair. This has been all over social media as some form of gotcha but I cannot see why the fact that one man is a well-intentioned dick head means that women can’t have single sex rape shelters.

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/05/2025 06:59

Igneococcus · 15/05/2025 06:54

I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them. I wish I’d got to talk to that guy… open conversations are needed to understand what fears are fuelling their prejudice.

Blimey, that is quite some condescencion on show here.

Bwahahaha I missed this bit of ageism! Thanks for highlighting @Igneococcus

I mean seriously 1. Age is a protected characteristic but it seems TRA are absolutely fine with being as prejudiced as possible towards older ppl and 2. Peopke in their 50s and beyond grow up in an era where gender non conforming men genuinely did push the boundaries of what it meant to be male. We hung out with boys and men who had long hair, wore make up and stereotypically female clothing - but still knew they were men

Agephobia- apparently fine

Nomoreidea · 15/05/2025 06:59

The OP title "SC fuelled bathroom aggression" should surely read "Stonewall fuelled"?

SinKlaire · 15/05/2025 07:01

I can't believe you've come in here of all places and are blaming women for men's aggression.

SirChenjins · 15/05/2025 07:01
  1. Lose the cis - women aren’t a subset of anything.
  2. That’s a photo of a woman.

Now, how exactly did you want us to take your post seriously?

SigourneyHoward · 15/05/2025 07:02

The man was mistaken, Caz is ageist. If we’re doing a survey on what we as.randoms on the internet are hearing about ‘bathroom aggression’ you can put me down as ‘all quiet on the western front’ as have heard 0 stories of bathroom aggression

Helleofabore · 15/05/2025 07:02

I genuinely believe there’s misunderstanding from a few of the much older cis community about what it means to be trans. I mean this compassionately, It is just something they do not understand and it frightens them. I wish I’d got to talk to that guy… open conversations are needed to understand what fears are fuelling their prejudice."

FFS! The issue isn’t because someone is ‘trans’, it is because male people are seeking and taking access to female single sex spaces. And have done for years without consent.

And Caz has some serious ageism as everyone is pointing out.

PronounssheRa · 15/05/2025 07:02

Caz is unmistakably female
Women aren't responsible for what a random man does
If men hadn't started trampling over womens boundaries in the first place, this wouldn't be an issue now.

Rightsraptor · 15/05/2025 07:02

' New laws and rules' - no, the law came in 15 years ago. It is not new.

Clearly a woman. And it's men causing the problems, as you illustrate.

Rightsraptor · 15/05/2025 07:04

And 'cis community' - wtf is that? Doesn't exist.

ButteredRadishes · 15/05/2025 07:06

So the actual headline is "MAN IS AGGRESSIVE TO WOMAN".

EmpressaurusKitty · 15/05/2025 07:07

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/05/2025 06:59

Bwahahaha I missed this bit of ageism! Thanks for highlighting @Igneococcus

I mean seriously 1. Age is a protected characteristic but it seems TRA are absolutely fine with being as prejudiced as possible towards older ppl and 2. Peopke in their 50s and beyond grow up in an era where gender non conforming men genuinely did push the boundaries of what it meant to be male. We hung out with boys and men who had long hair, wore make up and stereotypically female clothing - but still knew they were men

Agephobia- apparently fine

Well yes. Nobody ever wondered if Annie Lennox’s / Boy George’s / Marilyn’s genders were different from their sex, they were just people looking how they wanted.

Gender stereotypes are far more of a thing now than they were when I was a teenager.

Also I came out as lesbian during Section 28 - and back then there was a real, all women lesbian community to come out into. Not all the ‘queer’ crap.

Igneococcus · 15/05/2025 07:09

Theeyeballsinthesky · 15/05/2025 06:59

Bwahahaha I missed this bit of ageism! Thanks for highlighting @Igneococcus

I mean seriously 1. Age is a protected characteristic but it seems TRA are absolutely fine with being as prejudiced as possible towards older ppl and 2. Peopke in their 50s and beyond grow up in an era where gender non conforming men genuinely did push the boundaries of what it meant to be male. We hung out with boys and men who had long hair, wore make up and stereotypically female clothing - but still knew they were men

Agephobia- apparently fine

Ha, or like dd's friend who was disappointed I didn't react to her (clip on) safety pins in nose, ear and lips. Mate, when I was your age safety pins in my friends' faces were real and only very half-heartedly sterilized before being pushed through the skin.