Helen Joyce finally makes it to Women's Hour today from 10am

[Another2Cats]

Just saw this:

Helen Joyce @ HJoyceGender
Morning all! Guess where I'm off to this fine day - Broadcasting House to discuss the @ ForWomenScot judgment, 4 weeks on, on @ BBCWomansHour! Do listen in. I'm looking forward to debunking some shocking disinformation, and reminding an astonished world that Women Have Rights Too

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316

[EDIT]

Yes, I know I put "Women's" instead of "Woman's" in the title

I just adore Helen Joyce - her book was transformative for me and I have listened to pretty much every single interview and podcast she’s ever done since. She’s incredible.

Unbelievable that Nuala seemed to think there was some merit in the accompanied minors argument. I’ve emailed to complain. “Woman’s” Hour indeed.

But it does go hand in hand with what's been pushed by TRAs - that boys this young "know" their identity and sexual feelings and have done so from birth.

Helen was very clear and very level as always. I do think it would be better if she acknowledged at least that the ruling will make life harder and more limited for some trans people, and will be difficult for some venues to know how to manage. That's not to say the changes don't need to happen, but it's not quite as simple in practice as she says.

Nuala is a trubeliever.

Her comments can be summarised as: Won’t anyone think about the men!

Plus nice bit of Darvo thrown in to use the phrase ‘safety, dignity and privacy’ for the men…. and oh so wanted to use Helen’s chuckle as proof of her meanness towards the men.

Helen, on the other hand was clear, factual and to the point. It’s just such a shame that all talk is currently about toilets and not prisons or hospitals or rape centres where there is no counter argument to ‘what about the men’.

Brava, Helen! You were marvellous. Thank you so, so much for being an awe-inspiring defender of women’s rights, over and over again.

I actually love Helen. She is so calm and reasonable that she’s hard for the crazies and the captured to argue with. She comes across as such a warm, intelligent, decent person. Every gotcha is explained away, every lie is demolished and every mantra destroyed.

Robin’s argument appeared to be that the EA defines man as a male of any age so includes boys and woman as a female of any age so includes girls. Not getting the point that the rationale of a single sex space is to protect the dignity, safety and privacy of women and that their dignity privacy and safety is compromised by older males, not wee boys ffs

it’s them who also keep saying that there’s no legal requirement for spaces to be single sex, that it’s a choice. So presumably a choice to allow small boys accompanied by a female guardian to come in

But any mother would understand. What an own goal

I wonder if the representative from Amnesty will be Lui Asquith (they/them), previously of Mermaids?

Difficult??? We have had separate Ladies and Gents for 100 years. It is not difficult.

I gave up with the inane Woman's Hour years ago. The simpering was just too much, but I loved this. That presenter was so uncomfortable and desperate to put a MRA slant on what the guest was saying. Helen was clear, resonable and forthright in the face of atomic-grade obfustication from the host. I can't imagine there's a listener on the planet who doesn't now have a good understanding of the issues at hand. Brava!

Hoping the BBC have their staff support memo ready and their counselling and quiet rooms booked.

I liked that she focused on women and not on the men who've dolled themselves up.

After that wonderful clarity from Helen Joyce I've just changed my wall art.

I will never ever get my head around the insane cognitive dissidence of Women’s Hour taking the “transwomen are women” nonsense from activists then cutting straight to an items on women dying in childbirth/menopause issues that LITERALLY ONLY AFFECT BIOLOGICAL WOMEN. Not to mention being unpaid carers/ paid less than men. (What idiots we’ve been all these years: we could just put on a suit and brogues and immediately literally be men and get pay rises!)

Dreadful multi part question the presenter asked right at the end. She didn't give Helen any opportunity to reply!! It was a real gish-gallop of trans talking points. Very poor form.

Next the trans activists will be asking: well what about pregnant women carrying a male foetus, are you fascistbigots saying they can't be in women's spaces?!?

I’m not sure I’d agree with that @nauticant . Yes the BBC is institutionally captured, but Nuala didn’t have to counter and darvo with the ‘dignity and privacy’ argument. That mention felt quite committed to the cause. Though granted it can’t be easy in the BBC culture, still Emma B. managed to hold her ground.

Indeed. Until some men tried to pretend otherwise there were no issues with male and female toilets at all. Outside captured organisations, most toilets have continued to be used correctly.

I wish ‘privacy and dignity’ were not a phrase people lump together without the safety bit. The presenter used it which was annoying.

Very small boys can't manage on their own in the toilets so they need help with things like reaching the sink and soap to wash their hands or sometimes the doors can be too heavy for them to open. They need an adult to help them and that's often a woman because women are often the carers for small children.

Is RMW suggesting that grown men also need this kind of help?

The interviewer did Helen a favour by trying to put across the MRA point of view. Helen was able to deftly dismantle every attempt at a ‘gotcha’. She was given a chance to shine, speaking with absolute clarity and cutting through all the nonsense. Good on you Helen! Hope you’ve peaked some listeners today. The ‘what about little boys going to the ladies toilet with their mums’ argument was pathetic and desperate but that’s the only straw the interviewer had to clutch at by the end.

Madness that a presenter on Woman’s Hour would think that a minor male child being comparable to an adult male. FFS know your audience!