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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Helen Joyce finally makes it to Women's Hour today from 10am

654 replies

Another2Cats · 14/05/2025 07:14

Just saw this:

Helen Joyce @ HJoyceGender
Morning all! Guess where I'm off to this fine day - Broadcasting House to discuss the @ ForWomenScot judgment, 4 weeks on, on @ BBCWomansHour! Do listen in. I'm looking forward to debunking some shocking disinformation, and reminding an astonished world that Women Have Rights Too

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316

[EDIT]

Yes, I know I put "Women's" instead of "Woman's" in the title

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316

OP posts:
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16
Madcats · 15/05/2025 09:54

I’m not sure which barristers are mid-way through partly-suspended-employment tribunals, but I do think that Women’s Hour should cover just how many women have been hounded out of the NHS/Academia/Civil Service etc. and how, on the whole, their cases have been funded by many many normal people, not multi-millionaire ultra Right Wingers (or whatever the latest insult is).

Sandie and Darlington are getting some publicity, but “Average Joe/Joanna” would have no idea.

JustBitetheKnotsOff · 15/05/2025 09:56

Surf2Live · 15/05/2025 09:35

Have also sent positive feedback with only one word for my address. You do have to give them your correct email address though as they send a link to verify it before they accept the comment.

Would encourage all to give positive feedback. Maybe they'll take it on board and have more HJ and more women like her on. Would love to hear Doc Stock, Maya Forstater and KJK as well. Maybe also Graham Linehan.

Yes, well, I have an otherwise-MN-only email address that I use for annoying surveys and the like. Plus an ancient PAYG phone that still appears to have a valid number.

I was entertained to find I had 667 unread MN-related notifications when I logged in to the email!

BeepBoopBop · 15/05/2025 10:07

Interesting that the author Isabel Allende interviewed afterwards, detailing her decision to become a writer made a point of mentioning lack of opportunity for women. I assume she meant biological women as it was a few years ago. My irony meter flew of the scale as NMG made her mmm mmm ahhh empathy noises.

musicalfrog · 15/05/2025 10:10

MassiveWordSalad · 15/05/2025 09:18

I’ve sent my feedback. I find it quite sinister that they want your address and phone number.

Wonder if it's to find out if you're a license payer or not.

MassiveWordSalad · 15/05/2025 10:15

musicalfrog · 15/05/2025 10:10

Wonder if it's to find out if you're a license payer or not.

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I wouldn’t put it past them.

They could compile quite the map of wrong thinkers if people put their real details.

Brefugee · 15/05/2025 10:15

they ask where you're from and include overseas so i might be honest with my answer and see if they reject me.

Gnomegarden32 · 15/05/2025 10:16

nauticant · 14/05/2025 11:00

Although I spoke up for Nuala McGovern earlier, I note that in contrast to Monday, she ended the programme without reading out any messages from listeners.

The BBC really are afraid of being open over this issue.

I really have come to see the BBC as utterly pathetic and cowardly these days, not just on this issue but across the board.

PrettyDamnCosmic · 15/05/2025 10:18

musicalfrog · 15/05/2025 10:10

Wonder if it's to find out if you're a license payer or not.

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You don't need a TV licence to listen to WH on the radio.

musicalfrog · 15/05/2025 10:20

PrettyDamnCosmic · 15/05/2025 10:18

You don't need a TV licence to listen to WH on the radio.

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Oh I know. It was just a theory as to why they ask for addresses on the feedback form.

mcduffy · 15/05/2025 10:25

Same gnomegarden, I never even bother with the website any more. Completely irrelevant!

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 15/05/2025 10:26

musicalfrog · 15/05/2025 10:20

Oh I know. It was just a theory as to why they ask for addresses on the feedback form.

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I assumed it was to avoid spam and fakery. Not 100% effective these days.

Peregrina · 15/05/2025 10:40

I too have sent a positive email about Helen Joyce, but added a caveat about the presenter going on about boys in loos, when it was obvious that an infant child does not possess the same threat as a grown man would.

teawamutu · 15/05/2025 10:55

Peregrina · 15/05/2025 10:40

I too have sent a positive email about Helen Joyce, but added a caveat about the presenter going on about boys in loos, when it was obvious that an infant child does not possess the same threat as a grown man would.

I did exactly the same. And pointed out how nice it was to have an actual woman explaining the actual law, as opposed to Monday's 'man spouting self-serving crap'.

musicalfrog · 15/05/2025 11:07

Have sent positive feedback. Not sure I have done that in a looooong while 😄

Proudtobeanortherner · 15/05/2025 11:19

NumberTheory · 15/05/2025 06:59

The way in which her questioning and, in fact, the entire media coverage of the case has been abysmal is that it is entirely focused on this as an anti-trans move. And it’s not.

Almost all the media coverage, including WH, focuses almost entirely on the impact on TIMs, how they feel and how we’ll manage to make them obey the law.

But this wasn’t an anti-trans case, it was a pro-women case. Women’s hour should have focused on how relieved women are that they can finally rely on equality act protections. That the travesty of advice from government institutions that systematically undermined women’s protections has finally been clearly contradicted. On an acknowledgement that sex as a class is a valid group for organizing socially and politically. That the case was about a few, highly influential people trying to legally reclassify some men as women (against the wishes of the vast majority of women) and how that was unfair and unworkable for women when you consider how and why women are discriminated against.

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this

maltravers · 15/05/2025 11:57

TheGodS · 15/05/2025 08:11

Apparently the BBC are getting complaints about Helen Joyce. This is the link for sending feedback:
www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments

Well that tells you all you need to know. It is not acceptable to TRAs for the other side of the argument to be aired. Air your TRA argument, then we’ll deal with it through rational discussion and argument. That is how matters like this should be dealt with in a mature democracy, not by someone in the “powers that be” deciding which sides of the argument we are allowed to hear. So infantilising, so totalitarian!

TanteRose · 15/05/2025 12:49

i just sent feedback to the BBC

FriedGold32 · 15/05/2025 13:35

I see Helen was stalked afterwards, a TRA followed her to a restaurant and took photos of her, posting them online with the comment "May they never know peace"

Just another day on the right side of history.

CassOle · 15/05/2025 13:43

What petty, wannabe Torquemadas they are.

nauticant · 15/05/2025 13:47

Here's the basis of that post:

https://x.com/Docstockk/status/1922898940866760924

stickygotstuck · 15/05/2025 13:47

FriedGold32 · 15/05/2025 13:35

I see Helen was stalked afterwards, a TRA followed her to a restaurant and took photos of her, posting them online with the comment "May they never know peace"

Just another day on the right side of history.

That's just appalling.

Can this person be prosecuted?

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 15/05/2025 14:03

ScrollingLeaves · 15/05/2025 08:56

I know. How could an educational establishment of any standing use the phrase ‘sex assigned’ at birth?

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Surely it should simply be "sex at birth"? After all, in order to transition to something, a person must be transitioning away from something else, so stating the original sex is in no way an insult; if anything it might be seen as underlining that person's self-determination and bravery and all like that.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 15/05/2025 14:56

SternJoyousBee · 14/05/2025 15:08

I think it’s important to use clear language for 2 main reasons,

  1. A lot of people don’t understand that a transwoman is a male and a transman is a female. I think the use of MtF and FtM also muddies the waters as no one can change sex so no one transitions from male to female. Gender and sex being used interchangeably by the same people who tell us that sex and gender are different. Clear language is therefore crucial.

  2. The more we give in to the pleas to be kind and respectful of preferred pronouns and not calling a transwoman a man the more difficult it is to maintain other boundaries such as single sex spaces. The SC ruling’s use of the word “incoherent” was spot on. Even if I don’t mind about who pees in the cubicle beside me I know that single sex exemptions are not just about toilets. We can’t say that a TW can be a woman in the WI but not in a woman’s prison. Someone is either a woman or not, there are no degrees of being a woman.

So from a place of #bekind a few years ago I am firmly in the camp of giving up absolutely no ground. The TRAs wanted #nodebate and total capitulation at a time that a lot of women just wanted one female only rape crisis centre or one female only lesbian group. TRAs have hounded and bullied women out of jobs, targeted and threatened businesses into cancelling bookings for female only events and used their political powers to withhold funding from female only service providers. They get violent at the prospect of any female only spaces.

So I won’t be emotionally blackmailed into being kind or thinking about the feelings of men. I will not spend time worrying about where the men will pee ( as long as it’s not in the women’s toilets).

Helen’s explanation was so clear and articulate I can only hope that her argument landed with some listeners.

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My god, that’s gorgeous!

So pithy, and articulate.

123ZYX · 15/05/2025 14:59

AskingQuestionsAllTheTime · 15/05/2025 14:03

Surely it should simply be "sex at birth"? After all, in order to transition to something, a person must be transitioning away from something else, so stating the original sex is in no way an insult; if anything it might be seen as underlining that person's self-determination and bravery and all like that.

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Given the guidance is really to inform those that believe their gender is a different thing to their sex (because someone who doesn’t would already be using the toilet for their sex) it makes sense to word it in their language for clarity, especially given there are people who say they can change sex.

YourWiseBee · 15/05/2025 15:11

TheGodS · 15/05/2025 08:11

Apparently the BBC are getting complaints about Helen Joyce. This is the link for sending feedback:
www.bbc.co.uk/contact/comments

For what? Nothing that Helen said was complainavke. Now White lying his way through the interview - that’s a different matter.

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