Helen Joyce finally makes it to Women's Hour today from 10am

[Another2Cats]

Just saw this:

Helen Joyce @ HJoyceGender
Morning all! Guess where I'm off to this fine day - Broadcasting House to discuss the @ ForWomenScot judgment, 4 weeks on, on @ BBCWomansHour! Do listen in. I'm looking forward to debunking some shocking disinformation, and reminding an astonished world that Women Have Rights Too

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316

[EDIT]

Yes, I know I put "Women's" instead of "Woman's" in the title

Very. They set up as an LGB response to Stonewall who refused to engage with them. Some of the founders are ex Stonewall.

They believe in sex, because homosexuals do not have same sex protection if you pretend you can change sex.

Basically they think anyone who thinks you can replace sex with gender is a raging homophobe. Because they are.

I just listened to the interview on the Sounds app. How brilliantly eloquent is Helen? She made the interviewer sound so out of her depth.
I'm embarrassed to say I have not read Helen's book, and after that have just downloaded the audio version.

I can’t remember who the poster was but earlier in a thread (I think one of the ones about RMW’s appearance) they were genuinely puzzled about what they heard as a reference to ‘eminent squeezes’.

An entirely understandable mistake given the enunciation employed 😅

Amnesty on Monday should be interesting. They sent their best (a trans lawyer) to act on their behalf for the UKSC intervention. And that failed. So any bullshit about how UKSC didn’t listen to trans people is nonsense.
HJ was epic. We did send our best

Amnesty is Friday. LGBA is Monday.

Apologies, @LittleBitofBreadI hadn't seen the subsequent posts.

I'm tempted to listen, for the laughs. Or is it just too infuriating?

Why is it that decent, thoughtful women and men are quite happy to accept the rules and apply common sense/ the law when faced with men in women's loos, or seven-year-old boys in women's loos — but transpeople aren't?

What is it about being trans that makes people unreasonable? Why would the BBC and Woman's Hour wish to promote the views of unreasonable people?

no i am very clear about that - i was merely responding to yet another plea to a woman to be kind (in not pointing out how tall the person is)

It is not unkind. Nor is it a dig.

I wonder how often you or anyone else goes up to a bunch of TRAs (or online) to ask them not to use horrible words about women? Or does the request to play nice only go one way?

"most of them pass anyway"

nearly swallowed my false teeth there. You what?

ETA: ok have read your other posts. I re-read. I wasn't the only person to miss what you meant.

Related to that, one of the most important points made by Helen Joyce was countering the question of "but how can the rules possibly be enforced?" and her response was that a major part of the solution would simply be that transwomen abide by the rules. After all, we all abide by countless rules in going through our normal lives.

What's going on is this brainwashing that it's somehow unjust to expect transwomen to behave responsibly.

I'm not interested in an argument, sorry, I've made clear that I made a mistake.

I edited before i saw that.

For someone not interested in an argument, tho, you do pick your language.

Yes, I agree. I thought that point was very well made. Why can’t they just be expected to behave appropriately and stay out of women’s spaces? And people should stop telling them they are welcome in women’s spaces. They are not.

Plus, I doubt even if RMW were to be challenged by women in women’s facilities that RMW would actually leave and go somewhere else to avoid making women feel uncomfortable or upset.

She also made a good analogy that we don’t get rid of the speed limit just because people sometimes speed at 4 am on a country road and don’t get caught.

I can't normally cope with these things as I get overwhelmed with frustration but I tentatively started to listen to the start from a thread posted on Twitter and ended up listening to the whole thing accidentally 😂

The end bit about children in toilets is a bit frustrating but I still think Helen did a good job.

The rest of it is strangely calming as Helen just has everything covered.

I'd give it a listen.

the point about the policing (and the way the TRAs go on about genital inspections, makes me think that is their "subconscious" speaking) is interesting.

Nobody i have heard ever comes back and says "the same way it's always been policed: by people using the correct toilet for their sex"

Because we all know that is how policing by consent works, it works in that we agree there are rules and laws and that we keep them so that society runs properly. And for the occasional transgressors? That's what the Plod are for. (or not...)

This really stuck out at me, Helen's refusal to call them TW and instead Trans identifying men. I can completely see where she's coming from and it hadn't crossed my mind before.

Trans identifying men is so much more meaningful and accurate because no part of them is a 'woman' in the real sense of the word.

I genuinely don't know what you mean by that. I don't think I've used insulting, aggressive, or otherwise unpleasant language anywhere on this thread.

It also cleverly made clear that she believes that trans identifying men should be treated as sensible and rational adults; what was it? Something about how she doesn't start from the point of view that trans identifying men are stupid? (That's not the right word, but it was something like that).

I think it's great Woman's Hour are finally covering this, and great it's going over 2 (or more!) weeks. It's a good approach to interview from several different perspectives, and being alternative days hopefully it won't overwhelm the uninterested listeners who might get sick of the topic. So all in all, good planning by WH team who planned this program in my opinion.

So we've had/will have:

This week:
Monday RMW
Wedn Sex Matters' Helen Joyce Wedn (fantastic!)
Friday Amnesty, another intervenor

Next week:
Akua Reindorf
LGB Alliance representing lesbian intervenors

Who else do we want to hear from and should ideally be on the programme?
(WH might be reading!)
I'd like to hear from a trans identifying woman and specifically their perspective of retaining rights to maternity protection etc due to SC judgement

And invite back FWS - the last interview was pre-recorded which was a bit crap; they are heroes, I want them to have a proper interview on WH

And some representation from people who've been impacted by the mis-application of Eq Act and self-id, eg Darlington Nurses, Sandie Peggie, me cos I self-exclude from local sports centre due to communal self-id changing rooms (only joking, I'd be rubbish!)

And one of the many people who lost their job because of facing up to this crap

Oh no, I meant the RMW one, so I can hear 'eminent squeeze'!

Here you go:

The audiobook is a very good listen - Helen had to get her son to help her kit out a cupboard under her stairs in which to record the audiobook because no audiobook production company would agree to produce the book. If I remember correctly she had to line the cupboard with duvets to act as soundproofing so the space was suffocatingly warm.