Helen Joyce finally makes it to Women's Hour today from 10am

[Another2Cats]

Just saw this:

Helen Joyce @ HJoyceGender
Morning all! Guess where I'm off to this fine day - Broadcasting House to discuss the @ ForWomenScot judgment, 4 weeks on, on @ BBCWomansHour! Do listen in. I'm looking forward to debunking some shocking disinformation, and reminding an astonished world that Women Have Rights Too

https://x.com/HJoyceGender/status/1922534653166006316

[EDIT]

Yes, I know I put "Women's" instead of "Woman's" in the title

And c) because leaving them unsupervised is inherently unsafe. They could wander off and go outside and walk into traffic/fall down stairs/climb on something and hurt themselves. Never mind the risk they’d be at from other people.

yeah well he likened "TERFs" to Oswald Moseley's blackshirts, among others, so stuff that.

Also isn't describing someone as "tall and imposing" more likely to be seen as a compliment?

OK, 'dig' is probably not the best word. I guess 'personal reference' would do it. It's best to keep things neutral and simple.

I've replied to my wording about the tall and imposing thing just above.

And my major point really remains that remarks about a man being large/obviously manly opens up the argument about whether it's OK to let SOME men into women's spaces and most of them pass anyway and where do you draw the line etc etc.

most of them pass anyway

What? No they don't! Almost all of them just look like blokes dressed as women

For Women Scotland thankfully have it on their YouTube:

Pronounced considerably better than the ‘eminent squeezes’ ‘éminences grises’ as well….

I've come across some quite rude posts about the toilet habits of men in general here. It doesn't bother me a great deal, both because there is some truth in it (though NAMALT) and because I'm quite secure in my "identity" as a man. Rather than worry about "vile" comments, I would prefer people to work on their resilience and self esteem. [And it would be nice if people would try to avoid being gratuitously rude, but it's part of human nature and I'm not quite perfect myself.]

There are many less polite ways she could have described RMW.

Sorry, that was in response to still giggling at Helen's response: 'Yes, that was a good bit of legerdemain from Robin, wasn't it, but the original quote vanished despite selecting it

She said that RMW was tall and imposing specifically to point out that the fact that no woman has challenged RMW when they encounter RMW in a female space (or so RMW claims) isn’t an indication that they are ok with males in women’s spaces. I think that was really quite clear, not sure why you’re misrepresenting it.

Please, read what I wrote.

I didn't hear 'eminent squeezes' ; where was that?

OK, I stand corrected, I misunderstood the context.

But what's with the snitty tone and assuming I'm deliberately misrepresenting it? You could have made your point without being unpleasant.

Good point. And about 8 is when children can be relied on not to do these things (depending a little bit on the child).

The words of transwomen such as Robin seem to suggest they rarely have done the childcare required to gain this experience.

Is Robin liable to wander off if he can't access the women's toilets with an accompanying handmaiden woman? Does he need supervision for hand washing?

I wasn’t sure whether the misrepresentation was unintended or not @LittleBitofBread- I’m just sick of all the deliberately disingenuous comments which tend to be plopped down. Apologies, I misjudged your post.

Really interesting that Robin went first.

The first person was always going to set the agenda. If you are a TRA you perhaps want this slot. But its ALWAYS going to backfire because of the sheer amount of crap that they come out with.

Then getting in Helen Joyce is a stroke of luck. She comes in and gets to blow apart the shit from before and then set the agenda for the next two in a way which is much more difficult to crack. Because you've had 'both sides' and youve had logic and reason v bollocks already.

Apology accepted. No, I wasn't being deliberately disingenuous, I was just thinking about the wider point/argument about different 'kinds'/builds/sizes of trans people and failed to appreciate she was talking specifically about RMW's personal assertion.

The next are Amnesty International on Friday and LGB Alliance on Monday.

Yup!

The reason Woman’s Hour are so inadequate to the task of covering this topic is because they’ve spent years avoiding it as much as possible and so they are basically not match fit to enter into discussions that aren’t just of the ‘be kind’ sort. They’re not over their brief because they refuse to properly engage in the discussion unless absolutely forced to by events such as the SC ruling.

Also, being Irish myself, like the two women involved in the interview, I enjoyed what was in Irish terms a middle-class knock down drag out in which Helen was the higher-calibre participant.

Her remarks were in reply to RMW's claims about his own personal experience using women's loos though.

I've just had this pointed out to me and have conceded.

I can't figure out whether Helen Joyce on with Anita Rani presenting would have been even better. Actually though, I doubt it, she'd have likely muddled it all up meaning that even Helen Joyce's clarity would have been blunted.

If it is Anita Rani on Friday with Amnesty, I think that a number of posters here will be reappraising how Nuala McGovern did today.

How GC is the LGBA? Sorry I'm not sure myself. I ask because if they are not, the balance of interviewees is skewed a bit I'd say, that is if there are only four slots.

Re: children in opposite sex toilets

Safeguarding laws should come into play here like the 1989 Children Act. Also the DfE and law use the phrase ‘prudent parenting’. In "prudent parenting" it means making decisions that are reasonable, responsible, and in the best interests of the child, considering their circumstances and well-being. It is reasonable that you take a male child into the women’s toilets with you as its mother and vice versa. Once the child is older it is reasonable and responsible that they go to the toilet of their sex.

I would argue it isn’t responsible to suggest toilets ought to be mixed sex or we have third spaces because of the above scenario, precisely because that means an adult man taking a young girl to the toilets ends up in a private toilet room. Why should an adult and child of opposite sex have more privacy than an adult and child of the same sex? It doesn’t make sense for keeping a child safe. I have come across this argument before and it’s nonsensical.

For safe toilets, you need single sex toilets with door gaps at least from floor to door.

(This is an exact post from the thread that went so sorry if you did see it before).