Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

Absolutely!

Those who decide to ignore female people's needs and enter those spaces are indicating that they don't respect the needs of female people at all. Just by their action of entering the space they have indicated that they are people female people should be concerned about.

Personally with the exception of schools where there may be confusion about identity etc ,I've no issue with trans in 'female' toilets.

I do have an interest and I'm totally against unisex public toilets. I was recently in a theatre where there were unisex toilets. It was a long narrow space with cubicles and shared facilities. At half time I left the area when the show was about to begin. A man rushed in unzipping himself as if he was entering a male only toilet. Despite having witnessed more than I was prepared for I wasn't shocked. I was definitely disgusted given I could have had a child with me. The man concerned had absolutely no consideration regarding our presence.

Well, unisex toilets are grim. And that's what female toilets become, the minute you let transwomen in. They are now unisex, not female.

Your niece can dress etc however she likes as long as she’s not trying to deceive anyone

I agree with this.

It’s only a few years since a girl had a relationship with several younger girls, told them she was a boy, convinced them she was a boy, had sex with them in the dark. One girl called the police it went to court and she was found guilty. I can’t remember the actual charge but she got eight years in prison.

@MAFSsaddict I hear what you are saying.

I know a few transwoman, and I don’t feel threatened by them. I had a close friend when I was a teen that transitioned and saw first hand what that looked like before the internet came over to cloud everything.

But what I want to say is that many just get on with their lives (or at least try to). But when my friend transitioned it was so rare that you just had to be sure. I think now with the growing access to treatment and hormones it’s important that we start creating spaces for trans people - but without removing from women.

I want to highlight that something that often isn’t acknowledged is the affects that changing laws can have on women (what you would call cis/ now biological) - the women that are fighting for this are not fighting against trans but are fighting for women.

Imagine if we could legally change what the definition of a woman is? In 10 years time this could be completely abused and puts our girls at such risk! It’s such short term thinking. But also the trans community that then become women and attain the certificate - what is the point of becoming a woman if you join our side and we’ve decided that a woman isn’t defined as anything because it’s a self identifying position?

For me, what’s upsetting and frustrating is the press. Because before all of this, labelling, you could transition, do your surgery and live your life in the gender you believe you were born in (not easy, but doable). I know my friend could because nobody bats an eyelid at her femininity - and if any of you stood next to her in the Lois, you wouldn’t care - we all just go in and out anyway.

I think the press and attention is making this already vulnerable group even more vulnerable. And it is such a shame that protecting girls and women has to equal transphobia - because it’s not (well on MN it’s a more aggressive voice - but I guess fighting
for rights is an aggressive act)

If I’m protecting my family, it doesn’t mean that I hate yours.

Well my Husband, Dad, brothers, uncles, male friends aren’t a threat to women either but none of them would dream of using women’s only spaces because they’re men and women who don’t know them could feel threatened. Transwomen are men, there is no difference, nobody knows which ones are the harmless ones.

So, the gaslighting and expectation that women should let men decide what women need to put up with and the declaration that women must be "kind" to transwomen whilst they stomp on their rights is true? Got it.

Am I the only one who can't recall if any TW or TRA ever explained what a TW has in common with me as opposed to what they have in common with men?

I would like to hear it. Make up and skirts do not count.

You hear that wims? Women's rights can wait - we've got to get this other stuff sorted first. We'll get around to you eventually. Maybe. If nothing else comes up in the meantime.

A bloke dressed up as a women has no right in women only spaces.

The absolute difference is - men wouldn't feel threatened by women going into men's places.

The current trend of waking up and selecting your gender identity is horrific and ridiculous. Why are we entertaining this nonsense?

Totally agree and this needs to be said loudly and continuously. It was never about live and let live, it was never about safety for trans people (and why should women be expected to act as human shields for men?) it was all about removing women's rights and trampling them into the dust.

What, did Boris sign it?

I dunno but as a tall broad pretty masculinely proportioned female I am absolutely terrified in this current climate of some bozo security guard dragging me out of the ladies loos 🙈the worlds gone mad

The flaw in this is that it is not possible to change sex, so the man remains a man.

a woman is not defined by their ‘femininity’ so a man can’t ’add Femininity’ to become a woman - they are still a man just dressed differently…

a man who feels more comfortable conforming to society’s ‘norm’ for a woman doesn’t change gender or sex - they simply extend the boundaries of what is ‘norm’ for a man - gender is not transitioned, it is redefined or extended - sex remains the same

you say ‘what is the point of becoming a woman if…’ but you can’t become a woman you can only be born a woman

a man with hormones is not now a woman - they are simply a tweaked version of man

a man with surgery is not a woman - they are simply (and sadly) a mutilated man

a man with surgery / hormones / ‘added femininity’ / and wearing a dress is still a man

a man in women’s spaces is a man in the wrong place

you can not change from being a man to being a woman

Good men don't go into women's spaces. Therefore anyone who does is not good. Frock or not.

If the logic is that women come in all shapes and sizes then why bother have separate sport categories at all. And I'm more pro trans than many here.

As long as your niece stays out of women's single sex spaces and as long as sufficient single sex services and spaces for women and girls are provided, I fully support her. I don't want her to face discrimination or hardship. But I have cptsd that is triggered by men, including trans women, in single sex spaces like toilets so I need them to be free of men, including trans women, or I will be triggered and experience flashbacks, terror, and other horrible reactions. Other women can't be with men due to religious or other beliefs. Some don't have those restrictions but would prefer to avoid men in women's toilets, changing rooms, etc, partly due to safeguarding and partly for their own dignity and comfort.

Some trans women do respect women and women's spaces but many do not. Of the trans women I know, most either do not think about the problems they create for women or they belittle and minimize those problems by labeling us bigots. Some have accused me of weaponizing my trauma, as if I want to have this reaction and am doing it just to hurt them. (narcissism) We are talking about the ones who don't in this thread.

I think a man who plays dress-up in public lacks self/social awareness and empathy especially in a woman's safe space.

But then they have not generally had the life experience of feeling unsafe/attacked as a woman so probably don’t think about it which is where laws are needed.

Men also as a group are not as easily embarrassed or as modest as women culturally, so again probably not even on their radar or that we are uncomfortable changing/going to the toilet in front of men?

Because they are men.
Transwomen are men. Men are men if they have ever possessed a cock-even a micro one!

For the love of God, stop saying Transwomen. Show the concept up for the nonsense it is by always saying men.

"Transwomen want to use women's changing rooms" = "Men want to use women's changing rooms."

"Transwomen police officers should be allowed to conduct intimate searches on women offenders." = " Male police officers should be allowed to conduct intimate searches on women offenders."

"Transwomen want to be housed in women's prisons." = "Men want to be housed in women's prisons."

"Transwomen want to join women's rape survivors' groups to hear their experiences." = "men want to join women's rape survivors groups to hear their experiences."

"Transwomen believe lesbians should include them in their dating groups." = "Men believe lesbians should include them in their dating groups."

"Transwoman Lynx Smith features on the Women's Prize Fiction List." = Lynx Smith, a man, features on the Women's Prize Fiction List."

"Transwomen are Women."= " Men are Women."

Every time we say or write Transwoman, we are colluding with the madness.

It's a fucking man!

Try saying no to them, and see their reaction.

Tell them that you are uncomfortable sharing toilets, and see if they respect your boundaries. Are they lovely and respectful, or are they lovely to you because you are doing everything they demand of you?

Because they matter more, than we do. Their feelings trump our safety, and it is our job to ensure they are more equal than we are…..

Perfectly put.

This.