Why don't trans women care if women feel unsafe?

[ItsCoolForCats]

I listened to the Stephen Nolan show earlier on BBC Sounds. They were discussing the FA ban on male players in the female category. A lady from SEEN in Sport was on and was great.

Then there were two transwomen on (one who is involved with Mermaids). There was lots of talk about their feelings and some quite infuriating twisting of scientific fact (women come in all shapes and sizes, so transwomen have no advantage). But one thing that came up several times was how they didn't feel safe using male facilities. Stephen Nolan did the faux naive thing quite effectively and tried to turn it around to get them to consider other people's viewpoints, unsuccessfully. It was back to their feelings again. The levels of entitlement was quite astonishing.

Why don't they ever consider women who feel unsafe sharing spaces with males? Is it because these women are just bigots that need to be re-educated and reframe their trauma?

This is the most basic question to be asked before rushing into demands for third spaces [actually fourth, the disabled toilet is the third space, but that is constantly overlooked] -

There is an existing system for toilet provision, backed up by laws and building regs, which has worked for decades, on the basis of respect: men respect women's spaces and don't use the women's toilet; able-bodied people respect disabled people's spaces and don't use the accessible toilet.

There is no objective reason for anybody not to use the toilet designated for their sex. There is no evidence of transwomen being in danger if they use the men's toilets.

'Feeling more comfortable in the women's toilet' is no longer legal, and the 'comfort' of a tiny percentage of the population is not a reasonable basis for demanding third/fourth spaces.

What you are referring to as 'extremes' suggsts that you think there can somehow be a compromise solution to protecting the dignity, integrity and established rights and protections of women and girls - which might mean " just. a little bit" or "just a few special chosen ones" in women's spaces and categories.

Unforunately that is not realistic, and it has nothing to do with being extreme - unless you consider a firm boundary to be extreme.

What really has been extreme is the demand that everyone believe the impossible...that people can change sex, and that man over there is really a woman. Enforcing this false belief onto everyone else is extreme; as is trying to ride roughshod of the established boundaries and protections of another group.

Saying " No" is not extreme....but it is definitive.

Observing biology is not, has not been and never will be an extreme position.

There is only one extremist belief here.

A complaint I have seen is that having a third space is “othering”. However, those saying so still want there to be male and female toilets.

Is it othering for females not to be allowed in the male toilets and vice versa? No.

So the complainers actually want segregated spaces. Ones where they can break the definition of the segregation they want.

There is no objective reason for anybody not to use the toilet designated for their sex. There is no evidence of transwomen being in danger if they use the men's toilets.

Quite. It is a want/desire on the part of transwomen to access female facilities it is not a need. Facilities designated for their sex cater perfectly for their needs.

His favourite word for that is ‘ghetto’.

This sums it all up

So happy that I am spinning in my spinny skirt and tilting my head.

language is important. Misuse of words like male and female, man and woman is a large part of how we have ended up in this mess as a huge proportion of the population have no idea that a transwoman is a male.

And no doubt they are spiteful enough to try and create incidents with women in toilets just to prove their point.

They’ve been raised as men and have had the advantage of male privilege. I have seen many situations where the feelings of little boys in everyday life trump the feelings of little girls. It’s often unconscious by the person doing it but until this stops men are never going to understand the first thing about being female, regardless of how they identify.

What is kind and empathetic to expect 51% of the population to gaslight themselves? Transwomen are men. It’s not kind to women and girls to expect us to ignore our evolved instincts when it comes to males.

Stop expecting us to put up and shut up for these men.

Because they're men and therefore have no understanding of how unsafe it can be to be a woman in this world.

☝

But but… they are lovely people!! And all women and girls must surely know that! And any who don’t are so fucking extreme that no wonder people don’t listen!

There MUST be a solution that no feminist has ever fucking proposed! Oh that it right… feminists are extremists and their solutions are to be ignored as extreme!

(sarcasm)

She wishes to identify as female.
I’m sure lots do already, without being noticed, or at least turn a blind eye: that’s kindness and empathy.

I’m sure no one goes through this process without really needing to.

What process?

What has your nephew actually done in his quest to "identify as female".

What does he think identifying as female means, anyway?

@Nsky62

we have men and we have women
fortunately we have two sets of toilets generally...

disabled loos are separate because there can be additional needs around mobililty / space for a wheelchair / etc. and it is simply more economical to build e.g. one disabled loo than have all loos the necessary size...

we have the solution we need - there is no need to build different facilities - the claims about 'transwomen' not being able to use the male spaces appear to be unsubstantiated - certainly as a male I have never seen or heard of any issues - a 'transwoman' is a man so is welcome in any male space

I’m a woman, with a grown up daughter, living in London, and I have never heard anyone being made to feel afraid in a women’s toilet by a trans woman. It seems much more likely for a transwoman to feel uncomfortable and in fear using a men’s bathroom?

So, because you personally know no one, therefore female people should not expect single sex spaces to be single sex. You are actively dismissing people’s concerns based on your personal limited experience.

And you then centre a male person’s discomfort and fear over any female person’s.

This may not be your intention, but it is the outcome of your posts.

Me for one. Work toilet. I left immediately but because my name was on my office door, and I was worried about being followed back and reported to HR, it was a London University and captured, I actually went and sat outside for 5 minutes before taking a different route back to my office.

Women should not have to feel that they need to disclose their fear like this, but every fucking time someone dismisses women’s concerns with ‘I don’t know anyone who has this fear, therefore it is not real’ women then respond with their stories.

Why would a trans woman be afraid in the men's bathroom? I'm a trans man who doesn't pass very well, I've been using the men's toilets for years, and I've never felt afraid or in danger. Men don't care what you do as long as you respect the rules, which trans women would know.

But why should a male feel uncomfortable in a male toilet? Surely if “they just want to pee”. It won’t matter if they’re in the make toilet? It is not women’s concern if males feel uncomfortable in the spaces meant for their sex. That is on men to sort out

Here we go again, centre the men. Your misogyny is showing.

They are men. Do you think women would feel intimidated or have their boundaries and privacy and dignity violated by other men being in women only spaces?

We have single sex toilets for a reason, so anyone claiming to be confused about why women might not be happy to share with men is disingenuous.

We know from the media that tw exist and very often dont pass. So women are taught to accept that the man who looks like a man is probably a TW, so get over it.

Why cant men be taught that the man who looks like a man is a man, so get over it. Or indeed, the person who may look like a woman at first glance, is actually a man, so get over it.

The idea that TW are uniquely in danger in toilets is just not true, and certainly not womens problem to sort out. Especially as many people who are opposed to women only toilets say that they should be mixed anyway. Or say that we have to believe a mans inner gender. So aren't actually making any attempt to keep men away from TW.