BBC series I Kissed a Boy decision "homophobic in the extreme" - LGB Alliance

[IwantToRetire]

We have written to Tim Davie, Director-General of the BBC, about the homophobia displayed in the casting of a trans identified female in their upcoming series of ‘I Kissed A Boy’.

By doing this they are telling young gay men watching the show that they must be attracted to women who are pretending to be male. This is regressive, insulting and ‘homophobic in the extreme.’

Read our letter here:

https://lgballiance.org.uk/bbc-series-homophobic-in-the-extreme/

(Sorry cant find a version of the letter that isn't text via a graphic.)

Unfortunately that was looked at in great detail by the Supreme Court and gay = homosexual = same sex attraction. Legally they shouldn’t have Lars on the show unless they let in other women (assuming you consider the BBC as a service provider).

@42petunia

"Sexual orientation (who you are attracted to) is completely unrelated to gender identity (who you are). You can be trans and gay, trans and straight, trans and bi, ace, or anything else – just like a cis person can be. "

It's not that simple. How do you define gay and straight for trans people? Is a transman gay when he's attracted to someone with the same gender (men) or someone with the same sex (women)? It's called homoSEXuality, after all, not homogenderality...

The coercion I am referring to is society wide. Not specifically the show.

I watched the final catch up show of IKAB which I think they said was filmed 8 months after the main show.

They discussed Lars coming out as transgender in the house as a key point of the series at which Danni Minogue said something along the lines that ‘good’ people would be completely fine with accepting Lars - she’s missing the point that everyone wishes anyone else well of course, but it’s a gay or bi man’s dating show. As if only ‘bad’ people would object to someone from another category being included under that G or B banner as a potential partner.

At the end they asked for applications for I Kissed a Girl series 2. Queer (avoiding the terms ‘lesbian’ or ‘bisexual’) people (avoiding the term ‘women’) are invited to apply to that. So I definitely expect them to be adding biological men to that cast. It’s really depressing that these two long overdue TV firsts, last for just one series before they have to become mixed sex.

I know this is an old thread, but this is a very interesting point. I was looking at a reddit forum for romance targeted at men, & one post went into an evopsych explanation of how men need to compete based on achievement so want aspirational heroes, while women generally prefer ones they can relate to, as there was never a selection pressure for women based on achievement.
Also, the fact that on romance, specifically, a hero generally needs some kind of achievement to be desirable, so it makes sense that in those kinds of novels, this is focused on.

The men in the thread concluded that 'modern society and education' had taught women to ignore men's need for aspirational power fantasy. Not sure of their whole thesis,,but I think they did have something of a point.

Oh do fuck off with your homophobia dear

Shit like this is just mental. A top with no cock who can only ever use a dildo, whether made of plastic or flesh, is not a top. You need to feel the responses of your partner. Ain’t gonna happen without the right tools.

Yaoi is for women, written by women. Gay men don’t like that, we like Bara (for men written and drawn by men).

The TiMs on the other hand…
well I’d get in trouble for mentioning PIE and AGP together.

Are you implying that TIMs often like stuff about somewhat...younger characters? Like lolicon, for instance? I suspected as much. Many Internet TIMs seem disturbingly into the worse types of anime.

I wouldn’t dare suggest such a thing…

Axed. Will conclude with one final series of I kissed a girl. Let's see if they put a transbian in the final series.

“Important' BBC hit dating show axed following 'funding challenges”

“BBC decision to axe LGBTQ+ dating show is two steps back, say contestants”

Hmm maybe the BBC have taken a few things on board about the legality of what they’re doing.

What legality is there?

This is coming up a lot here, people are confusing the Supreme Court ruling on single-sex spaces to think that it means that the BBC are breaking the law by having a trans person on a gay dating show, or nominating a trans person for an acting award. Those aren't legally defined single-sex spaces.

The FtM individual (I believe) had to announce their trans status, so there wasn't any sex by deception, and anyway I don't think any of the men wanted to date her.

The core dispute in the FWS case was about whether a law governing public boards (Gender Representation on Public Boards Act 2018 ) that set targets that they should be composed of 50% woman could count men who lived as women toward toward that target.

With respect to I Kissed a Boy, presumably most heterosexual women were excluded from selection. That in general is only legal if there is some compelling reasoning (like the coherence of the show) and if there IS a compelling reason then exceptions shouldn't be made for women presenting as men.

Whether the specific show rises to the level of actually breaking the law is more speculative, but on its surface FWS is closer to the rules governing the panel makeup of a variety show than it is of regulating single sex spaces, though the basic principle (biological sex over gender identity) apply.

Potentially Harassment on the basis of sex and/sexual orientation by the production company/BBC and of the lesbian (ie female) participants.

But it possibly depends on whats in the contract and whether theres full disclosure about the participation of trans identifying persons and an opt out/no fault clause.

The Supreme Court clarified existing laws: biological = woman and lesbian = woman.

So forcing a male contestant into a group of unconsenting lesbians is homophobic/harassment. Nothing new here - just a clarification of what most people understand these words to mean

This has never happened though.

There was a FtM (biological female) on the homosexual male version.
There has not been a MtF (biological male) on the homosexual female version.

Correct - you’ve landed in the middle of a conversation about the next/final series (which will be for lesbians) might have a TIM on the cast list. Keep up

Whilst I'm not keen on a FtM trans individual on a gay dating show, I think it is really clutching at straws to claim that it is illegal (in any sort of way). The BBC may have even categorised the show as a "queer" dating show.

Low viewing figures probably resulted in its cancellation. Much like how there has been disappointment over gay romantic comedies struggling at the box office because there isn't that much of an audience.

As I mentioned I, myself, wouldn't go so far as to say that it was clearly 'illegal'. (I also wouldn't pretend to guess why the BBC discontinued it.) I was just pointing out the applicability of FWS - especially the fact that the case pertains to the selection of individuals for a group reserved for a given sex, exactly the complaint made against the show.

I'm disappointed about the cancellation but not surprised. The viewing figures (at least for IKAG) were actually higher than average for the timeslot for a lot of episodes (There was a source for that, I currently can't find it). The main reason was "funding challenges" so people are calling for the recast of Dannii Minogue for maybe a former contestant as host, because paying Dannii is expensive.

Regarding the legality of it, I actually looked at the application form last summer, and there were no references to it being a "same-sex attracted" dating show. I remember it feeling like they were very careful about the language used, in a way that would allow them to have a trans woman as a contestant (They used queer women instead of lesbian / bisexual, didn't discuss SSA).

There's been a lot of outrage about the cancellation and several petitions to try and save the show, so I guess we'll see what happens

Surely if they described the potential contestants as 'women' as per the SC it necessarily means biological, although 'queer' could mean anything.

I think what this show has done is fantastic (but probably not in the way they hoped, though maybe someone is playing 4-d chess).

Maddeningly the general population has not really cared that young vulnerable lesbians are being told they must date TiM. Maybe when we make this a men’s problem, as a gay man you have to accept this TiF in your space and dating pool, as a straight man you have to accept this TiM in your dating pool, they might stop with this nonsense.

But there was a TIF on the last series. The men were really happy with her being there and accepted her as a gay man.

They knew they were being filmed and their comments broadcast to a community that issues threats, cancellations and seeks to get people sacked from their jobs for not pretending they see people as the opposite sex.

How do you know they were happy and accepting?

If you won't believe women on here - try reading what the Gay Men's Network have to say about the homophobia inherent when you insist that gay men must accept trans identifying women as partners:

https://x.com/MensNetwork1/status/2025660001415483801

They're commenting on the situation in Australia where the law bans same lesbian only (same sex) meetings.

I haven't said I don't believe women on here. I was merely pointing out that there was a TiF on the last serious.

I don't believe that a transman is a gay man in any way, shape or form. But the men on the last series certainly seemed happy enough. Maybe it was for the cameras, we can only go by what we see. And my gay friends are split on the issue. Some think transmen are men and will happily date them. Others are horrified by the idea.