Greens internal drama warms up

[fromorbit]

New long article looking at the drama inside the Greens over biology suddenly existing again despite their best efforts.

How the Green Party forgot the environment and was torn apart by trans rows
It was a party united by a single mission – to save the planet. But now the gender identity debate has left it divided and in chaos

https://archive.is/TOlNx

The article is already out of date as Zack Polanski of hypnotic breasts fame has just launched a leadership bid against Deyner and Ramsey.

Emma Bateman
It's no secret that big boobs Polanski wants the top job. He is a student politics slogan churner, a self server who distains women and wants misgendering misdemeanours to be grounds for expulsion from the Greens.
He is "LGB with the T"
Still NO DEBATE!

Pro-women Greens article on his background:;
https://concernedgreens.uk/watchlist/zack-polanski/

The existence of biology is likely to be a significant part of the leadership contest for sure so interesting to watch .

Ali Shahrar has launched another legal challenge against the Greens. Gardening needed.

May 27th is the date for Emma Bateman's legal hearing against the Greens.

On May 27th I am in court against Green Party in a case which will expose the contorted lengths the Greens go to in order to shut women up.

It isn't going to go well for the Greens given the Supreme Court ruling. This could be key moment in seeing the ruling's effect on politics and directly impact the leadership contest. It will also be probably be infuriating and hilarious in equal measure.

I think the May elections for him and others will be a key moment.

Full spotlight on Wales and Scotland and lots of important English councils.

Lots of media coverage.

Right now it looks like a Reform landslide again. Hypnotits claims he will stop them. Instead Reform get huge boost from them being prominent because policies from legalising crack, to saying biology isn't real, to having open borders make Reform look fairly sane. Look at Zia vs ZP on the BBC Zia looked way better.

Yes. Some aspects of democracy are quite scary when you think about it.

This is where I urge people to read Win Bigly by Scott Adams. Lay aside what you think about Donald Trump, and pay attention to Adams. The value of his commentary in 2015-16 was that he's a trained hypnotist who has been obsessed for decades with persuasion techniques, and he could spot things Trump was doing that political pundits thought were insane, but turned out to be very effective.

It may seem a bit woo woo in places, but it's a quick and breezy read, and you'll learn something.

I don't know if ZP has read it, but I can see he's deploying quite similar techniques. He's not nearly as good as Trump (or Farage), and he needs to lose that theatre kid vibe, but this is why he's a good communicator, and even if I'm extremely cynical about him, I don't discount the possibility that he could break through.

Sometimes you have to think a bit left field. I'm always telling friends that creative writing degrees are a scam - if you want to know about story structure, read a book on screenwriting. Likewise, if you want to know about communications, ask a hypnotist.

I have seen Bill Clinton work a crowd, and as much as I despise Bill Clinton on principle, it was like seeing a magician at work. I doubt if he ever studied hypnotism, but he seemed to have all the techniques instinctively.

One thing I've got quite interested in is how politicians perform in podcast interviews. Obviously the big one stateside is Joe Rogan, who I'm not a regular listener to, but his approach is very influential - it's not so much an Andrew Neil type adversarial interview, more an extended conversation where Rogan gets the measure of a person and what makes them tick.

It's a bit of a meme, but it's true that last year Barron Trump (18) outsmarted the Democratic Party by telling his dad which podcasts to go on. Trump's interview with Theo Von, where Theo was talking about his own struggles with addiction, and he got Trump to talk about his older brother who had died of alcoholism, did a tremendous amount to show a more human, more vulnerable and relatable, side of Trump to young people who don't watch the news.

From our own point of view, in any given week Helen Joyce will do two or three long form interviews. Sometimes they're with established podcasters, but just as often she's talking with young women who have small YouTube channels. You can see it's a really good practice for her - it's not just honing her arguments, it's provoking her to think about angles she hasn't considered. That's a big part of why Helen is such a great communicator.

I don't follow them religiously, only when they've got an interesting guest, but the UK podcast guys I tend to follow are Andrew Gold, Chris Williamson and Winston Marshall. Mostly because they're good interviewers who can draw someone out. They're all right coded and their guests tend to lean right. I've been trying to think of someone on the left who would do well in one of those hour-long conversations - maybe Angela Rayner, because she seems to have a bit of personality and backstory about her, but beyond that I'm struggling. Shabana Mahmood had a good interview with Michael Gove on the Spectator podcast a while ago.

Zack has his own podcast now. I haven't dipped a toe into it yet, because I suspect it's going to be Zack on broadcast mode, and the best I can say about that is that he's more likeable than Owen Jones.

But I'd be interested to see how he fared in a long form podcast with someone who isn't already on his side.

The one he did with Bastani was interesting for a number of reasons. I don't think Bastani is a political genius, but he's really good at vox pops, and has a real gift for going to somewhere like Runcorn and getting voters to talk to him. So his ideological position is moderated by a knowledge of where normie voters are at. What struck me about the Novara interview was this - Bastani was trying his best to be sympathetic, but he'd lob in a question about immigration, and then Zack would go off on a 10-minute monologue, and Bastani's body language throughout became less and less comfortable, like he was a disappointed father watching his son talk fluent bullshit.

Obviously this applies double to someone like Zarah Sultana, who shuns mainstream media and only talks to alt-left outlets.

The question for ZP will be, can he come across as engaging and not mad when he's in a conversation with someone outside his ideological bubble?

Interesting @SionnachRuadh . I'd have expected Trump to wobble a bit on the subject of his alcoholic brother. His father seems to have more or less thrown his brother out of the family , despising weakness of any form. At least according to Mary Trump. Maybe Donald can practice the art of ' mirror empathy' ?

Very useful for any politician of course!

It was quite funny IIRC, because Trump had talked quite movingly about how much he loved his brother, but he had this terrible illness, and that's why he didn't touch alcohol, and Theo asked if he'd been tempted, and Trump answered "do you think I could be a drinker and be restrained about it?"

I think the format works best with people who have a life outside politics. Lots of people in politics - maybe particularly on the left, but maybe I'm being uncharitable about that - don't seem to have any hinterland. If I have to listen to another Starmer speech where he does his Ron Manager thing of talking about Euro 96 and Oasis...

The question for ZP will be, can he come across as engaging and not mad when he's in a conversation with someone outside his ideological bubble?

The trouble is that he comes across as a self-important smartarse IMO, with a troubling messianic streak. But maybe that’s just me.

Oh yeah. I think he's very good at tailoring his message and persona to the smallish Green/left audience. Whether he survives contact with the normies is another matter.

He went down very well on QT (tho whether that counts I don't know)

atm he's saying all the things about reform that ppl against Farage people want to hear & that's all that's getting covered in the mainstream tbh

my concern is that by the time ppl realise the other stuff, they'll hand wave it away "must stop Farage at all costs"

I mean there will be plenty of opportunities for Zack to appeal to a broader audience.

It may be a niche issue, but the attack on the Filia conference will be an interesting indicator.

Greens: Blokes in dresses intimidating women is totally justified, from the river to the sea, trans folx will be free

Labour: (crickets)

Reform: If Shabana Mahmood won't take action, just wait until Sarah Pochin is Home Sec

Joe Rogan's Trump interview was fascinating. It was the first time I thought he appeared human.

I’m seeing a few feminists I follow saying that their feed suddenly seems completely filled with Zack and it feels a bit bot like.

it certainly feels like that this weekend

(Twitter)

Sorry, this is a bit tangential to this thread, but I have a point about Helen Joyce. I think Helen Joyce is great on podcasts, and I listen to most of the ones she does. I like her clear, uncompromising style.

But I think this works well because she is preaching to the converted. I don't think her style will bring around people who are wavering, such as those who can see what the issues are when it comes to gender ideology (perhaps more so when it comes to prisons, rape crisis centres etc.), but who are still worried about 'being kind' to transwomen.

I have a friend like this, and I've been slowly trying to change her mind. I sent her the recent episode of the SEEN podcast with Susan Smith, and she thought it was great. She could really understand the points Susan was making. She liked that Susan Smith said she isn't anti-anything; she is only concerned about women's and girls' rights and safeguarding.

But then she went on to listen to the Helen Joyce episode, and it really got her back up. She said she made some interesting points, but she found her very divisive. All the things that we like about HJ (her directness, that she calls a spade a spade etc), she found problematic. She found her too divisive. So if my friend is representative of the 'be kinders' , those who can see the issues and are open to the arguments, I don't think HJ will bring them round. And I'd imagine that's why she won't be invited back to Women's Hour in a hurry. And most of the public don't listen to the very niche podcasts.

Has that flipped over do you think? Time was all the pols with hinterland were left or liberal. Healey , Jenkins - connoisseurs of the arts. Michael Foot , Robin Cook , published authors. Benn of course. Slim pickings more recently.

On the Tory side ....meh. Alan Clark wrote some spicy diaries. The ghastly Jeffrey Archer I suppose. But I wouldn't want to visit his hinterland.

I don't know if it's flipped over, or at least the right-coded people who I like are not Tory or Reform aligned in a party political sense.

I'm thinking about someone like Paul Kingsnorth, and lots of the lefties who used to like him complain he's moved right, but really... I can look at the early Kingsnorth who wrote environmentalist stuff for the New Statesman, or the later nature-worshipping pagan version, or the current Christian version... and it seems to me there's a lot of continuity in his beliefs and preoccupations, it's just that he no longer believes in political solutions to what he sees as spiritual problems.

There's a thing Peter Hitchens said about Starmer, that he's an extremely well educated man who seems unable to name a favourite book or poem. He's always banging on about patriotism, but his definition of British patriotism is a few truisms about democracy and the rule of law, plus football.

I don't think Starmer is exceptional in that. I don't know if there are many current MPs of any party, except maybe Danny Kruger, who you could put on Desert Island Discs and get something insightful out of them.

Well, it takes a very broad church to effect change. Those who incisively cut through noise and shift the Overton Window, those who straddle the middle ground and offer broader questions around the edges of the topic and surrounding issues, those who instigate conversations, write letters, comment on social media ... It all helps, and it's all organic and necessary and useful.

Wes Streeting condemned the attack on the FiLiA venue on Twitter. He called it out as an attempt to intimidate women.

Unlike Sian Berry who said that the Centre only had itself to blame for hosting such a provocative event in Brighton.

I would feel better about Labour if Wes Streeting weren't permanently out on a limb.

Bearing in mind their looming legal bills, you can see why Polanski would be keen to get more paying members.

Interesting developments. Good analysis

Green party reaches 100,000 members for first time after Polanski becomes leader
Such numbers do not necessarily translate into electoral success, with Labour having had a peak of more than 500,000 members under Jeremy Corbyn, who lost two general elections. And while one recent poll put the Greens at 15%, most such surveys have put the party nearer to 11% or 12%, not much changed since Polanski took charge.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/oct/12/green-party-reaches-100000-members-for-first-time-after-polanski-becomes-leader

Meanwhile.

Greens and Your Party jostle at The World Transformed
Are Jeremy Corbyn and Zarah Sultana the Gallagher brothers of the left?
Indeed, while Sultana was keen to assert that she is united with her co-founder, the MP for Coventry South has set her sights on drawing lines of contrast with another potential ally: the Green Party. Speaking at an event on Saturday, in Hulme’s lofty Ascension Church, Sultana repeated claims about the Greens which she had been keen to relate the following afternoon. Before the event began, Sultana could be seen locked in conversation with her fellow panellist Polanski, but shortly after proceedings began, the dividing lines were being drawn. “I see the Green Party as an ally in the fight against the far right,” Sultana said, “and so going into the next election, there will have to be cooperation between Your Party and the Green Party.”

But she added that the two parties don’t have identical voter bases, describing that fact as important. “I have massive respect for Zack, for Mothin (Ali) and for Rachel (Millward). But we come from very different political traditions,” Sultana said. As a key point of difference, Sultana pointed to the Green Party’s lack of a whipping system: “For example, the whipping system in the Greens is something that people are very proud of, that MPs are able to vote with their conscience… but in a genuinely democratic party, MPs have a duty to uphold the decisions by members held at a sovereign conference.” She added: “What’s the point of conference motions if MPs can just ignore them?”. (At this, several Green Party attendees could be seen squirming in their seats and raising their eyebrows).
Another dividing line drawn by Sultana between Your Party and the Greens was on anti-imperialism. “On the Green Party’s own website, it says it recognises that NATO has an important role, ensuring that its member states can respond to threats to their security,” Sultana said, “I’m sorry, you cannot greenwash NATO, the socialist position is that we must leave NATO immediately.”
Polanski was keen to fight back. “Our MPs are absolutely accountable to the membership and the decisions they make,” he said, pointing to the fact that the party has mandatory re-selection. On NATO, the Green Party leader added: “I want a world without nuclear weapons, so I definitely do not support NATO, who are an organisation around a nuclear alliance. I just want to be really clear about that”. Holding out the olive branch to Sultana, Polanski said, perhaps provocatively: “I’d love it if Zarah would just join the Green Party”.

https://archive.ph/eyTFZ

Conflict between these parties at some level is inevitable. The thing for Your Party is the Greens are so far ahead and so well established there is not much in it for them to ally in most places. Elections in May and I can't see Green party candidates standing down for a party with not much of a track record in anywhere where they are well established. In the 2028/9 General election maybe they can do a deal in a few constituencies, but winning local elections over next few years is key for the Greens so they will motor ahead while if YP doesn't advance there it will dead in the water by 2028.

I would say next year's local elections will be a key test. It's mostly going to be London boroughs and metropolitan boroughs, so mostly Labour seats up for grabs. Labour are likely to do horribly, it's just a question of who they lose to.

A bunch of these areas are going to be prime Reform targets, but there's also a lot of juicy left wing territory there - the inner London boroughs, Manchester, maybe Leeds and Sheffield. The Greens are pretty well established in most of these places and I don't see that it's in their interest to stand down, unless there are sitting Labour councillors who've defected to Corbyn.

I keep an eye on local by-elections to spot trends and it'll be interesting to see if there's a Polanski surge - or if Corbynite candidates can get any traction.

The East End will be interesting to watch next year, because it seems that 100 years of Labour dominance in Newham could be under threat. People assume the Newham Independents are left wing because they're Muslim led and pro-Palestine, but they're really a big tent party for everyone in the borough who's fed up with Labour. They've been cautious about lashing up with Corbyn, and if peace beds down in Gaza, they've no particular reason to.

Social normalisation of green party via

https://nitter.net/charliemansell/status/1977752304699764982#m

"Last year, @TheGreenParty had an income of £5.2m. £2.1m of that came from membership fees. If the now 100,000 members pay the same average fee, that will be £3.6m from subs. That’s an income boost of 26% before you even look at fundraising, activists, etc:"

I’ve had a local begging letter from them asking if I can give 30 quid a month so they can get my area’s first green mp by 2029.

they want 30 more people to do this each year to raise 10,000 for that election, here.

it’s called 30x30

😶