Trans former judge to take government to ECHR

[CervixSampler]

Trans former judge is taking the government to the European Court of Human Rights over SC ruling

I disagree. When ‘sex’ is being questioned or we are being told it is a spectrum, then I think it is important to remember what sex actually is and what it refers to. That it is something that has a consistent definition across all plants and animals.

I really find it reprehensible to try to enlist people with a medical condition to the trans cause of trying to deny the reality of sex.

Beth Upton for all his babble being unable to define sex, is not a woman. He knows it and we know it.

It was the temperature bit I was referring to specifically.
It’s not relevant to our discussions that the sex of reptiles is dependent on the temperature the eggs incubate at.

The problem is activists use the wide variety of things that normally happen in other species to try to support their position that there can be more than two sexes or genders in humans or that sex is flexible, when it’s not.

Clownfish changing sex doesn’t mean that humans can and we shouldn’t attach too much relevance to that. That’s what I mean.

But the genes dictate which temperature causes which sex. None of this is random or magic.

And humans aren't fish.

Genes determine sex, sex determines gametes, therefore genes determine gametes.

Otherwise we couldn't do sex selective IVF. Which I believe looks at chromosomes when determining sex of the embryo.

But the genes dictate which temperature causes which sex.

But they are not different for each sex.

The problem is activists use the wide variety of things that normally happen in other species to try to support their position that there can be more than two sexes or genders in humans or that sex is flexible, when it’s not

They try all sorts of nonsense but even in clown fish there are only two sexes.

I get what you mean a bit but I find the argument over chromosomes tiring.

They try all sorts of nonsense but even in clown fish there are only two sexes.

Clownfish change sex (sequential hermaphroditism) that’s why they’ve been referenced by activists.
It’s not relevant to humans though.

But there are still only two sexes involved. No spectrum.

McCloud has put out a rather angry video statement. I don't think the pro-women side need to worry to much about this legal challenge based on it :

https://x.com/JustMisogyny/status/1919011627547951438

Accurate summary.

Progressive Misogyny

His argument in full:

1. Lesbians look like men.

2. Black women look like men.

3. Birth certificates are meaningless.

4. Nobody asked disabled people if they want to share facilities with men in dresses.

5. Some men in dresses call themselves "mum".

6. Employers and shops will now need to know what sex you are but no one really knows.

7. The police will pretend women are men so they can strip search them.

Completely mental.

Looking more and more that The GLP/McCloud team up will make them a LOT of money, but will help our side.

Surely in point 2, he’s arguing against the GRA by admitting “birth certificates are meaningless, after all, mine says female”?

And on point 5, if a transwomen with a GRC is lying to young children that he is their mother, it’s his own fault if that causes social issues, as s12 of the GRA states that he’s not the mother he’s a very naughty boy..

If he is taking this to the ECtHR on the basis people don’t know he’s male (right to privacy, ‘anatomically’ female, etc), won’t that argument fall away as soon as he turns up in court looking and sounding male?

Crikey, I know they've got fuck all argument, but watching a judge try to make it is almost entertaining.

Because, let's face it, the people who will really suffer are women being strip-searched, lesbians, parents, black women and lesbians again.

Meanwhile, tight lipped, furious transwomen are completely absent from the argument. Ta da!

Although, I notice a few of them crept in there, on the basis that they will enter the spaces anyway, because no one can prove they're not men. A circular argument if ever I heard one!

Surely in point 2, he’s arguing against the GRA by admitting “birth certificates are meaningless, after all, mine says female”?

yes, I've noticed, that the zealotry really, honest to God, does make them blind.

If GRC generated certificates are useless, then let's stop doing it

I think research needs to be done into the effects of cross sex hormones on the brain.

He must have been able to put across a reasonable argument at some point to get to the position of judge.

Legal people are always saying what a great “master” (or whatever) VM is.

I think it's that there is no reasonable argument, but he thinks if he says it in a reasonable way it might suffice. But he can't manage that, either. Talking through clenched teeth doesn't generally lend itself to rationality.

i've seen photos of this person, so I'm actually quite shocked how they come across in real life.

But it's the 'let's pretend that the reason I'm saying this is for all those other people', not meeee.

Won't someone think of the butch lesbians

Haven't watched the video yet but I have seen McCloud in action before.

IIRC, any footage of him saying his birth certificate reads 'female' can only be helpful to Operation Sunlight.

i've seen photos of this person, so I'm actually quite shocked how they come across in real life.

Filters.

If he is taking this to the ECtHR on the basis people don’t know he’s male (right to privacy, ‘anatomically’ female, etc), won’t that argument fall away as soon as he turns up in court looking and sounding male?

There is a video of Goodwin driving a bus - he looks very clearly male. Perhaps he didn’t appear in person at the court? In any case the Goodwin case quite explicitly made no consideration of women at all. That is something that could not happen again.

Gender non-conforming women receive abuse because they are female, not because they are believed to be male.

Regardless, this argument only seems relevant if McCloud is campaigning for more mixed sex or unisex toilets, and I don’t think that is the case.

I very much assume that the EHRC will consider users of disabled toilets when writing guidance.

The point about ‘mum’ relates to taking an opposite sex child to a changing room or toilet. Not clear how this is relevant.

I do agree that if sex is relevant to law, it should be possible to prove sex easily, but I don’t understand how that helps McCloud’s argumrnt.

I am very interested to know whether this is what McCloud was going to say to the SC.

I thought that the ex-judge was channelling Queen Elizabeth although I don't recall her using red lipstick. I think it was clear that they thought if something was said in a voice that strived to be reasonable, then people would just believe it.

But when I saw it yesterday morning, I thought, how many tropes can be fit into such a short video. And then I thought, I thought this person was supposed to be a very intelligent judge, why are we seeing these weak arsed arguments.

Then I remembered the court cases I have watched and read the tweeted transcripts of and I realised, there is nothing else. This is the best and all they have.

Also, since many of the official photos are in judicial garb, I think that can affect people’s perception too.

Most female judges look less stereotypically feminine in the wigs and the huge thick gowns, so I think the mind accounts for that and assumes that he probably looks less like a man without all the garb.

So the extra sunlight definitely helps, as @teawamutu says!

The GLP fundraiser which includes paying McCloud is now at 351,021.60.

Doesn't seem a great investment.

Sex Matters scornful assessment of this farce from a few days ago gets ever more accurate.

Not surprisingly on such a divisive subject, not everyone agrees. Maya Forstater, the chief executive of the charity Sex Matters, who won a landmark ruling in 2023 that so-called gender critical views were protected beliefs in employment law, is sceptical of McCloud’s case, branding it “a fool’s errand”.

Forstater argues that the Supreme Court “has just laid out in a clear and unanimous decision precisely how the Equality Act has to be interpreted, and one of the guiding principles of this exercise in statutory interpretation was to ensure that the Equality Act was compatible with the Human Rights Act”.
She adds: “McCloud may wish to undertake this challenge as a personal pursuit, but … this proposed challenge looks more like a PR campaign than anything else.”
Fiona McAnena, a director at Sex Matters, is even more blunt. “Victoria McCloud is among the entitled men who seem to think their own wishes trump the rights of women, compounded by activists claiming that their rights extend much further than they do in reality,” she says.

Times - Row over transgender judge’s human rights court challenge

https://archive.is/GpRwg

I'm quite stunned by how bad that video, or the 'arguments' contained therein at least, actually is. It's very cheering for us that all they've got is this.

McCloud may well be/have been an excellent judge, as we've been told, but is very unimpressive at making a coherent case, as we see here. Also, doesn't he now live in Ireland which rules him out of legal standing in this? So I've read, at least.

And the police gave themselves the power to strip search females a while back by the simple expedient of an officer claiming to be a woman when he isn't. Does McCloud not know this?

Up to this point, or the Forstater EAT at least, that’s been enough.

This feels like the reason we’re seeing bad arguments. That’s a lot of money.