Why are so many ‘cis’ men invested in the trans discussion ?

[Rivypike]

To me it seems more to be just a dislike of women of a certain age rather than a genuine respect for trans people. So many slurs about GC women being grey and middle aged, even ugly. Is it really just plain old misogyny ? Because we’re too uppity and outspoken, we’ve overtaken them in many spheres and that’s all they’ve got ?

Dictionaries record current use of words, including neologisms and words being used incorrectly compared to their original meaning, "decimate" being one well-known example.

Something can be made-up tosh to push an activist scholar's agenda and still be in the dictionary.

It is clear, now that the thread has been going overnight, that the OP's use of the term (which I agree with you and OP is offensive) has had the massive benefit of giving dear Chris the opportunity to once again demonstrate the point-missing virtue-signalling hollowness of The Right Side of History

Jennifer Pritzker was a US military officer earlier in his life.

Yup, deep seated misogyny which they can dress up as being woke and liberal and all the rest. I have a BIL fully down this path. And as i have watched his posts and comments I have realised more and more how misogynist he is. I think often it's also very tied up in white male privilege - which they cant/won't acknowledge. I have long recognised BILs sense of entitlement which i put down to that but I have seen how much further it REALLY goes in the last few years.

I was absolutely horrified at the things he was saying after the supreme court ruling. I haven't said anything because dh is already sensitive to how I feel about BIL but honestly, for me, he's pretty much dead to me now. I want nothing to do with him as much as I can avoid it.

LOL, indeed. This has already been explained up thread, but under the rule of treating others as you’d like to be treated, TW should only use cis- when they are happy to be reminded that they are, and always will be, men.

There’s a lot of misogyny on the left though, a lot. But these misogynistic idiots are different in the way they present their misogyny. Far right are more traditional in their approach the vast numbers of misogynists on the left are more manipulative. Woman hating really has no particukar political affiliation. I find the ones on the left far scarier. We really must stop people equating left politics with equity and kindness

I’ve recently realised that my two most vocal TWAW FB friends, two women I went to school with who I’m surprised have fallen for this bullshit, both seem to have husbands who appear to be beardy coffee shop types who are also quite dominant in their tastes and social calendars. Lots of “Child free night while we go and see Obscure Band My
Husband Introduced Me To And Now They Are My Fave Ever Too!” type posts.

I think a lot of women who consider themselves lefty types still find themselves in relationships that play out to the “woman smart, man is smarter” trope, but don’t see it because they march for Palestine, eat vegan on Wednesdays etc.

A bit off topic but solidarity with anyone who has found themselves past 10 days quite frightening and isolating- it’s horrible seeing people your fond of IRL talking about how vile anyone who supports JKR / SC ruling is, when you are one. I’ve had a couple of wee cries over it.

We recognise that coercively renaming Aotearoa to New Zealand was an infringement of Maori rights to name their own land. Coercively renaming women to cis women, a subset of their own sex class, is likewise an infringement of women's rights to name our own sex class.

It’ll soon be wiped from the written word/speech and dictionaries as it’s no longer relevant.

Man/Male & Woman/Female is the way forward. Trans is such an unnecessary statement.

He’s the kind of guy who would say he’s hard left, pro feminism, pro equality and yet the only feminism he publicly supports is pro porn, sex work and trans rights.

Ah yes, 'male feminists'. The ones who like the bits of feminism that get them more frequent sex with less reponsibility. The kind of men who subtly hint (or outright say) that reproduction rights could be changed at any point unless we fall into line. The Scottish ones who told women to 'wheest for Indy' and they'd get to women's rights if and when they got time.

And then you've got Billy Bragg and Owen Jones who see women as nothing more than useful support humans for 'the cause'. Owen Jones with those awful 'will suck dick for socialism' shirts. The two of them probably appreciate women in the sense that they're handy for making sandwiches for the 'real' (male) activists.

So you've never heard of David Tennant? Billy Bragg? Owen Jones? David Lammy? Alistair Campbell? For starters. They're all 'c' men who hate feminists defend transwomen.

Agreed.

I'm a man and tbh when I've been brave enough to address these issues with very close colleagues the general view is "isn't this all a bit ridiculous?".

But the company we work for is all in on this nonsense so we just keep our heads down and hope sanity is eventually restored.

I'm not particularly proud of that fact but I will continue to read this forum to get a wider range of views.

@peanutbuttertoasty yes, a male relative of my child, related on their dad’s side so not a direct relation to me but they class us all as family. He’d always had a crush on me he said. I think my feminist views thankfully put paid to that.

Because it is made up nonsense. A term used by those forcing their own agenda on women, trying to force us to accept a male point of view. Part of the process of erasing women’s viewpoints. There is no LOL about it.

"TW should only use cis- when they are happy to be reminded that they are, and always will be, men."

Wrong. The opposite equivalence of Cis is Trans, not Men. "TW should only use cis when they are happy to be reminded that they are trans" Fixed it for you.

Again, Cis simply means someone who's not transgender. Therefore if someone says they're not Cis then they are declaring that they're Trans.

I'm a bloke in my early fifties, and all my mates think that believing you can change sex is bonkers. I'm probably the only one that comes at it from a "women need safe spaces" perspective though.

Yes of course I’d heard of them, I just don’t take any notice of what famous people do or think.

I meant within my social circle, fb acquaintances and the 120 blokes I work with

The trouble is, “sanity” will never be restored unless people are willing to put their heads above the parapet. We wouldn’t have got the ruling we have from the SC if people had just kept their heads down out of fear. Do you think women got the vote by “keeping their heads down”.

Silence has been and will be always the greatest enabler of evil.

Everyone can choose how they react to oppression and persecution of people in society, tbh most do always keep their heads down, luckily for the protection of freedom some are not willing to be appeasers

So by your logic “trans” is the default?

Not really. Someone being Trans also means they're not Cis. Neither is the default.

I've thought about this a lot and I think it is age old.

In the past women were characterised as nothing more than a "vessel" or "soil" for male seed. They were the second sex and mentally and physically inferior. Today trans ideology characterises "woman" as nothing more than a fuckable hole and a set of demeaning stereotypes. Birth and pregnancy is "gross" and motherhood is low status and unimportant. Same shit, different century.

The reality is that men, on the right and the left, are terrified of women fully realising the power they have. This is why abortion rights, surrogacy, women-only spaces, porn, prostitution etc. are all such hot button issues. They're all levers through which to constrain women's ability to exercise their power.

Male arrogance and power. Needing to be the centre of society.

Also threats and violence and the need to diminish women.

Particularly focused on successful women who speak up.

Name changed.
I was asked if I agreed with white supremacy after I challenged peoples thoughts on the new law! I was bullied out of a group of so called caring professionals. I was also called fragile etc.
By MEN!

People can be invested in all sorts of things that don’t affect them directly.

My husband, who is in his 70s, is very invested in the trans discussion and holds extremely strong gender-critical views that would delight many mumsnetters but which appal our daughters, who are in their twenties and have trans and non-binary friends.