Why are so many ‘cis’ men invested in the trans discussion ?

[Rivypike]

To me it seems more to be just a dislike of women of a certain age rather than a genuine respect for trans people. So many slurs about GC women being grey and middle aged, even ugly. Is it really just plain old misogyny ? Because we’re too uppity and outspoken, we’ve overtaken them in many spheres and that’s all they’ve got ?

Here's a useful reminder of the rules of misogyny -

1. Women are responsible for what men do.

1. Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

1. Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish.

1. Women’s opinions are violence against men, thus male violence against women is justified.

1. Women and Feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless.

1. Women who go around being female AT men by menstruating and breastfeeding babies deserve punishment.

1. Women should always be grateful to men for everything.

1. Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are.

1. Men always know the “real reasons” for everything women do and say.

10. The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad.

11. Whatever women suffer from, it is worse when it happens to men.

12. Women’s ability to recognize male behavior patterns is misandry.

13. Angry women are crazy. Angry men have trouble expressing themselves.

14. Women have all the rights they need: The right to remain silent.

15. Men are the default human. Women are strange subhuman others.

16. Everyone owns and controls women’s bodies except the women themselves.

(Ignore the formatting issue please - I can't get the bloody thing to number properly on here!)

Andrew Tate supports JK Rowling’s views ?

Jonny Depp and Amber Herd are as bad as each other, a very toxic relationship which has nothing to do with trans people

”Karen” is used too much but does 90% of the time indicate a specific type of behaviour which is entitled and not welcome, but as a 60s child who grew up with a sister called Jane who had to put up with plain Jane rhymes i can’t get too worked up over it.

can we actually stick to the trans issue rather than trying to shoe horn all male behaviour into “trans” agenda

Cis is a prefix FYI. Cisgender would be a word.

Have you taken it up with all the major dictionaries since both are to be found in there?

It's made up nonsense, dreamt up by a social science researcher in 1994 to make women a subset of their own sex class. But you know this.

Any point to make about the OP?

NC because I’m paranoid. I have a family member like this. He’s full on twaw and treats his gf like shit but in that awful jokey way that might be excused for humour by anyone less experienced. He hates JKR and met her through work, claiming that she behaved appallingly at the event. Sure. His gf gets the blame for his mistakes. For example if he hurts himself by walking into the doorframe it’s her fault for not having held the door open for him
even though she had her hands full of luggage. She’s equally twaw and has been plastering Facebook with posts about how trans people have always existed and aren’t doing any harm etc. I got sick of it and unfriended them both because I can’t stand the hyperbole. He thinks taking HRT makes a man change sex but if I took testosterone, cut my hair short and continued to wear trousers I wouldn’t be a man. How’s that work then? The misogyny is there and barely concealed along with the obvious contempt for his girlfriend considering he was chatting me up and flirting with me not so long ago. I used to have a lot of time for him but he’s been less friendly since I called him out on his treatment of his gf and there’s other things that have caused me to distance myself too. Misogyny lies at the heart of it and it makes me so sad.

If dictionaries have "made up nonsense" in them then I presume you will be contacting them with a complaint?

I think a fair amount of them want to fuck a man/chick with a dick

I don’t get it, I have never heard any guy express support for the trans movement, quite the opposite, they are under the impression that women support it

We've gone through this countless times. It's made up nonsense. Just like one of the ideologically driven nonsense definitions for woman in the Cambridge Dictionary. I'm not referring to myself as cis and anyone who insists that preferred pronouns should be essentially mandated while referring to women who object as cis is a hypocrite.

Anyway, any point to make about the OP?

My dd is 23 and we don’t talk about the trans issue as she sees nothing wrong in boys she went to school with transitioning into “ girls” at a (very) young age but one thing she has mentioned which I find really surprising is how acceptable it is amongst young men to have a trans girlfriend - no one questions it and it’s totally cool - where’s I just think - so they’re gay then ?

RaisedVegBeds has it. Like many of the strange cultural phenomena we've seen emerge in the past couple of decades, it's not just one thing. Like trans isn't just one thing.

Homophobic whilst gay.

I think often it is about guarding masculinity. There are men and non-men. By asserting that TWAW they are consigning them to the non-men box. This partly explains why TMAM hasn't gained the same traction.

It’s the double crime of being unfuckable and no longer wanting to be service humans. They despise us.

Your family member was chatting you up?

@Keenovay mentioned "consciousness raising". Thanks for this. Anyone else (older than me or with a 1970's feminist mother,) thinks this was a terrific step forward for women? Plus maybe something Mumsnet helps do online?

Why are they invested? Because we said no, and meant it! How f’ing dare we? Who the f’kittyf’ck do we think we are? We must be punished, taught the rules. Now get back in your box women, be quiet and do as you’re told. Women eh?

Because if women don’t take responsibility for transwomen, they become men’s problem to deal with, and that makes them uncomfortable.

Women are expected to solve all of men’s other problems, so it would be really unreasonable of us not to take this one off their hands too.

You could just say ‘men’ - we would’ve known what you meant, as people say trans if they mean trans.

Because it handed them the ability to publicly talk about punching women in the face with no consequences.

A grim thread to read, for sure, And yeah, 'cis' is SAFC.

Cis is a prefix, eh? So is daft, if you want it to be.

I don't understand the mindset of talking down to women just because they're women, it's not something I've been conditioned to.

In recent years, I wonder if it's because I didn't have a lot of male input in my early years. Two older sisters and two older female cousins, who used to look after me, as a nipper.

I had several kind, but no nonsense aunts and grandmothers who wouldn't be pushed about. My stepmother said few years ago that wasn't it interesting that I had quite a lot of girl friends at school, which I'd never really considered.

There was a group of us, 4 boys and 4 girls - not necessarily all the same kids at the same time - we went out roaming, making fires, catching tadpoles and butterflies, building dens and the like.

Germaine Greer pointed out to us more than 50 years ago that men (many men) hate us. Some of us are slow learners.

Genderism promotes the sex-role, appearance, and clothing stereotypes used to keep us down.

The tragedy is young women adopting stereotypes to escape their cage, rather than working to keep the cage in the state of collapse feminism had reduced it to, through constant effort, and constant vigilance.

Some are also genuinely still in their thoughtless #BeKind phase, the way a lot of women were before they peaked, but because men are seldom in situations where sharing a space with women is threatening to them their peaking is delayed or they just don't see what the problem is because they haven't had to think about it very hard. Add in social, political or friend group pressure NOT to think about it and the #BeKind is strengthened.

The thread on here about "why did you used to think TWAW" is instructive and I think applies to a lot of men too, that don't hate women.

This.