Why are so many ‘cis’ men invested in the trans discussion ?

[Rivypike]

To me it seems more to be just a dislike of women of a certain age rather than a genuine respect for trans people. So many slurs about GC women being grey and middle aged, even ugly. Is it really just plain old misogyny ? Because we’re too uppity and outspoken, we’ve overtaken them in many spheres and that’s all they’ve got ?

That's interesting Sinner - my childhood was like that too, a mixed group of unsupervised children playing together, mostly non sex-specific variants on hide-and-seek or tig or makey up 'adventures. Also a lot of cooking (baking really) as my aunt gave me good children's cookbooks and my mother was tolerant once we stayed within her rules (let her know in advance what ingredients we'd use; kitchen to be immaculate and everything put away by 4.30).

I have noticed that a lot of the genderist men went to schools that were part of or aped the Public School system, with cadet corps that informed a concept of men-and-officers status division. Whether they embraced it or resisted it, they stewed in it and its beliefs and assumptions throughout their adolescence. James/Jan Morris was a very typical example of a participant, but the mobbing and bullying by the supporters is often led by blokes with that background. I'm not sure how that translates to the USA of Australia, though the first has a huge military and the second had a very macho culture.

I recently blocked a male long time friend on social media. He was just becoming too much.

He’s the kind of guy who would say he’s hard left, pro feminism, pro equality and yet the only feminism he publicly supports is pro porn, sex work and trans rights.

Hes middle aged, late diagnosis of ASD, no kids, works from home in the arts, socialises mainly online, suffers anxiety… I don’t think he truly hates women, I think he finds it difficult to reconcile wanting sex with women and seeing women as having the same full level of humanity as men. I doubt he even sees his inner misogyny, he just can’t see women as real people.

I don’t think that explains all of them, there’s a whole load of twats who put on a This Is What A Feminist Looks Like t shirt because that’s what was expected in the circles they moved in. They were fast enough to swap that out for progress pride t shirts when they found that mean they could go back to saying they’d like to punch women and instead of being ostracised they’d be applauded.

Because there are more of them. It's a democracy.

They are Men who get a massive thrill out of any Women/girl being uncomfortable or scared. Can't be blatantly hateful so they do it via be inclusive, be kind, etc.

Seen quite a few on social media in the past few days attempting to appear concerned for Women being strip searched by police. Saying Women will only have themselves to blame due the court decision. Its not quite the gotcha they think it is though and they are as transparent as a window pane. Especially with their little eyebrow raise and tiny smirk at the end of it.

how acceptable it is amongst young men to have a trans girlfriend - no one questions it and it’s totally cool - where’s I just think - so they’re gay then

Yep.. they’ve ’transed the gay away’ which has long been a highlighted homophobic aspect of the trans ideology woo.

and when people have suggested these kids have support and counselling to go through their feelings and thoughts, again the TRA movement has responded in a very homophobic way by labelling such counselling ‘conversion therapy’. Ridiculous but they are well aware of the negative connotations of that phrase (from America where there is horrific actual conversion therapy to ‘ make gay people straight’). Another example of the woo mvt using language to manipulate meaning and people.

See eg. Pakistan where being gay is a terrible thing but it’s ok to be trans. Because it’s a woman and man relationship. Let’s not think about the sex. Etc.

So yes I can well imagine how ‘cool’ it is 🙄

Firstly, because men will usually support their fellow men over women.

And secondly, because there are many men, particularly on the Far Left ime, who are misogynists but feel compelled to pay lip service to feminism in order to protect their lefty credentials and get laid regularly. Therefore being able to indulge their misogyny with the socially sanctioned bullying of terfs is a pleasurable outlet for their true feelings.

Thirdly, because most of the most prominent GC feminists are over 40. Many men disregard or actively despise women who are old enough to have their own minds and opinions, but no longer young enough for the men in question to feel sexual attraction.

Young female TRA handmaidens are subconsciously aware of all the above and so they pander to TRA men in the mistaken belief that it will protect them from male hatred and possible violence.

It’s not just misogynistic men looking for a front to have a go at women and get a pat on the back for it - they’re usually obvious. What I find more disturbing, I think, is nice men doing it.

I have a male colleague. He’s gentle, thoughtful, kind, educated, always willing to listen, often talks about how ashamed he is when there’s a report or stats on male violence against women - and yet as soon as the SC judgement came out, he sat there wringing his hands and saying ‘What about trans women?’. He then went on to say how they were one of the most vulnerable groups and what toilet were they supposed to use now, and how it was all just so horrible and worrying for them.

I was gobsmacked. Even after I pointed out they’d still be protected by the EA, as they should be. He just carried on about how upsetting it was for these poor TW and how people didn’t want them to exist. I struggled to keep my patience because what I really wanted to say to him was “Major victory for women’s rights!” Him: “But what about the menz?” because that’s what it bloody felt like.

Why do nice men like him do it? I think it’s subconscious and born of innate prejudice. Somewhere deep inside they know some of their men tribe are being ‘relegated’ in some way and that’s obviously wrong because men are everything, so therefore this must be a cruel and unacceptable thing. Concurrently, part of their brain doesn’t see GNC men as ‘real men’ so, not being men, they have to go in the ‘women box’ - ie he’s not a man, so what else could he be? Consequently in their minds we are being unfair because there’s men (real men like my colleague) and everyone else who’s not a (proper) man. Therefore they genuinely can’t compute the judgement.

I wonder how many of them would actually date a MTF trans person?

I personally think for a lot of people this is a kind of a "paint by numbers leftism" - they think to be left you have to subscribe to certain ideologies unquestionably - trans rights is one of them. Plus, a lot of the celebrities are not very bright, and a lot of these activists are captured by having a relative who is trans.

I agree. The Omnicause.

Still awaiting Little Owen Jones’ answer to “would you shag a trans man”. He attacks then blocks anyone who asks him.

Plus, a lot of the celebrities are not very bright

Very true.

‘have noticed that a lot of the genderist men went to schools that were part of or aped the Public School system, with cadet corps that informed a concept of men-and-officers status division. Whether they embraced it or resisted it, they stewed in it and its beliefs and assumptions throughout their adolescence. James/Jan Morris was a very typical example of a participant, but the mobbing and bullying by the supporters is often led by blokes with that background’

I’m quite surprised by this, as it hasn’t been my experience at all. I am old, so a lot of the men I know have a ‘traditional’ background, and participated in traditional male upbringings with single sex education and mainly sex segregated hobbies ( like Scouts and OTC). None of them have any time for the gendering view , although some of my closest friends have had a pretty close up experience as an ex-member of our friendship group is a very early adopter TIM.

I’m not saying that they are feminists, but they understand sex differences pretty clearly, and would regard it as their role to protect women from obvious harm (which would include being hit in the face by a TW throwing a ball in what used to be womens sport). They tend to think that TIM are a seven letter word being with p and ending in t.

Obsequious little turd

Yes, it’s attractive to some supposedly progressive men that there is a group of women they don’t have to pretend to respect.

I think because in their minds trans women are these feminine looking people who are gentle and vulnerable. Not someone who is obviously male looking like Eddie Izzard insisting on sharing a toilet with teenage girls or some aggressive creepy looking fucker like that Barbie Kardashian who is a danger to everyone.

(I do think gentle, harmless and lovely trans women exist, btw. But sadly they are not the ones who's voice is the loudest).

Apart from andrew tate who said he would have sex with hulk hogan if hh had gender reassignment surgery.

And says they're homophobic for asking the question.

"I don't need these rights but I want to make sure they are there regardless because, well, I feel personally aggrieved if they are taken away, huff huff."

Greed.

I'm not sure they would take on a transwoman as a partner. I think they do like the fantasy porn trope of converting Lesbians by giving them a good seeing to with their dick, so love seeing men do this by forcing lesbians to accept fully intact transwomen as women.

Young female TRA handmaidens are subconsciously aware of all the above and so they pander to TRA men in the mistaken belief that it will protect them from male hatred and possible violence.
I think some of them don't want to face the fact that one day they, too will be middle aged women, and think they can protect themselves from it by pandering to this fantasy. The sad thing is that a lot of the young girls who have transed will, when they are middle aged be facing the consequences of what they have done in terms of irreparable damage to their health. The men who trans in middle age will have lived their youths, had children and found a second wind bullying women, trying to get Lesbians to sleep with them and feeling up their own fake boob's. The young mostly autistic girls would have destroyed their youth and their health on this altar by the time they are also invisible middle aged women.

Because they can be as rude and aggressive to women as they like while looking like the progressive ones because they’re “defending the most vulnerable”.

That was some high level branding, making trans identifying men “the most vulnerable.” My bloody arse, are they!

Messed up ND kids with so many interwoven issues are vulnerable. And a predatory social movement tells them their problems are because they are in the wrong bodies and anyone who disagrees hates them and wants them dead… THAT’S vulnerability. They need counselling, support and fresh air, not bastard celebrities telling them they need protection.

”Karen” is used too much but does 90% of the time indicate a specific type of behaviour which is entitled and not welcome

You mean older women asserting their consumer rights when given the run-around by jumped-up retail staff?

can we actually stick to the trans issue rather than trying to shoe horn all male behaviour into “trans” agenda

"The trans issue" is and always has been a male behaviour issue. We didn't decide to start talking about trans-identifying males for shits and giggles, we did it because we could see that it was the latest manifestation of widespread misogyny.

LOL, all it means is someone who isn't trans. How is that offensive?

Absolutely. Fifty years later, I still remember the jolt of realising other women had similar experiences and were finding ways of dealing with them. Talking things through and discovering we didn’t have to keep following the same old script. Those were wonderful, liberating times, full of hope and possibilities.

There are even more possibilities now.

The world has taken a very weird turn with transgenderism, largely because the internet puts everyone, including every misogynist, in touch with others of their kind who in the past would have been isolated. But sane people are reasserting reality. Women are making all kinds of new alliances with others they would not have met if we hadn’t been under attack.

It’s been and continues to be a huge consciousness-raising experience.

Yes, a million times over. Some things never change, including the need to protect children and young people from predatory men.