You may be right but you should be ashamed of yourself

[Pluvia]

Yesterday, at a Labour Party meeting, I proposed we should consider a motion welcoming the Supreme Court ruling and the clarity it offers women and lesbians in particular. The local transactivist nearly exploded with righteous indignation. My suggestion was voted down, almost unanimously.

On the way out someone who I know to be GC caught up with me and quietly said 'You may be right but you should be ashamed of yourself.' I asked whether I should be ashamed for supporting women and girls rights, or whether I should be ashamed of raising this at a Labour Party meeting when both our Labour prime minister and a key member of his cabinet had accepted and welcomed the ruling. They said 'Both'.

I can only conclude they are angry at me for being right and doing something about when they didn't dare do it themselves.

Have you read the TransRightsNow! Open Letter to MPs? That was written by the man who tried to get his non-binary identity recognised by the court.

Did you not see the extreme placards wanting our death, disfigurement and permanent mental disability that were proudly displayed at the protests all up and down the country over the Easter weekend?

There are men who are apparently deliberately wetting themselves in public for sympathy because they won’t use another toilet apart from the women’s.

I don’t hate trans people, I don’t wish them ill-will. I feel kind of sorry for them that they can’t work through their discomfort and feel they have to resort to such extreme measures. It took me quite a while to get over the shock of the Brexit vote and the fallout from that for many reasons I won’t go into here. I really do understand the deep seated sense of uncertainty and discombobulation of oneself and your place in the world.

There is a malevolent, threatening, sometimes violent, misogynist streak of TRA/MRA men and women that will fight this to the fullest. I have no compassion for them.

For much of my pre-teens and tweens I was, what we now called ‘misgendered’. People need to stop making such a big deal of it; you correct people politely, ‘I’m a girl, not a boy’ etc and they apologise, embarrassed and you both move on. It makes you brave and confident, if you want it to.

Some will not be safe in men’s.

How many? What proportion of the male population do not feel safe in the men’s?

How vast will this alternate provision need to be?

Is it completely unthinkable that men might actually expand the bandwidth of what it means to be a man?

I genuinely don’t know how many men feel unsafe in men’s loos already.

It's not women's responsibility to sort out the mess that Stonewall and huge numbers of responsible, well-paid, apparently intelligent and capable people have made of this massive Men's Rights Activist grab for women's rights.

You may not have been personally affected. I've seen my lesbian community destroyed, the local women's centre and women's services vanish. I've seen people who were once lesbian friends get sucked up in an ideology that has left them with mutilated bodies and serious MH issues, because once you start believing lies you have to spend your life fending off reality and when you can't, and you realise what you've done to yourself, the confusion is too much to bear.

What did you do in the fight for women's rights, @Unitarily ?

Just came across this on my Twitter feed.

And we need to be kind and compassionate, do we?

What did I do? Frankly I find that incredibly offensive.

Not that it matters but if you must know campaigned tirelessly on here starting about a decade ago. On Twitter, on Reddit. In real life graffitiing slogans. Spoke to everyone I know to try to explain what was happening. Was banned from various places. In the times when it was incredibly dangerous.

I was slightly too effective. Attracted the attention of very tech savvy and nasty individuals. Had a cyber attack. All my emails, my phone, Facebook account, personal Wi-Fi and computers. Received threats in the post. Felt so unsafe and panicked I couldn’t discern real risk from not real risk. Ended up sectioning with panic induced psychosis as every time the door went I thought they were there to get me. Then subsequently lost my job and wasn’t in a mental state to fight it.

So frankly fuck off with that. I have done my bit and sacrificed more to than most.

Did all turn out well in the end though. Wouldn’t be where I am today without that saga of events 😊

@Unitarily i think children identifying as trans will actually be far better off now than they would have been. In the short term, they are probably worried, especially as they're seeing media stories about trans people wanting to leave the country, being in fear etc.
Im also not sure that many trans people would (these days) agree with you that it is a medical condition. I'm sure they have said it isn't one?

oh yes

Your right. They probably wouldn’t. But it’s treated on nhs and IMO is a mental health condition.

Disabled people have little enough provision as it is. And most of the trans organisations have been arguing for years that it's not a medical condition.

Men can BeKind and budge up for once.

@Unitarily I read your moving story of how you were targeted for your work, I hope life improves for you.
I am surprised to see that you think this is a medical condition, I am even more surprised that it is identifiable and worthwhile for the NHS to attempt treatment.

[if anyone wonders why as a man I am so interested. It is because my DD works in the Media and is always under pressure, not directly but from the all pervading opinion and mood that Trans is right and SC were wrong.]

Obviously those suffering with the "trans" delusion have a mental disorder whether it's gender dysphoria, internalised homophobia, AGP or whatever. If it's not a mental condition then it must simply be a lifestyle choice.

@Unitarily I didn't recognise your name. If you've read my OP then you will probably realise that I, too, have been putting myself on the line in various ways, for years. Including being called to come into a police station to discuss my potential hate crime and being doxxed by local TRAs.

Why, if you've been put through the hell you clearly have, are you calling for kindness and understanding for the people who have been so vile to you?

Do you think older men who get a sexual thrill out of dressing up as women and invading women's single-sex space, or insisting on their right to enter lesbian events, have MH problems?

@MarieDeGournay absolutely loving #bejust can I pinch it please?

For some they are just chancers and autogynephiles, some just confused and rebelling their identity (enby teens), some are narcissist adults (Sam smith).

Others (what we used to call the traditional transsexuals with GD) - I do believe is a mental health condition. What else can it be. They are not whimsically allocated the wrong body through magic as some like to say. They have gender dsyphoria and that’s it their brain.

But that’s just what I believe. My opinion doesn’t really matter. But we do need somewhere for people who feel they can’t go to the men’s to go to the loo. And there will be some of those. Autogynephiles will probably just go to the men’s. They crave confrontation. They aren’t getting any kicks out of the disabled loos.

And please don’t worry about me 😊. That whole incident changed the course of my life and I am very grateful for where I am now. It would feel strange to thank them but for me it worked out very well in the end so maybe thanks to them is due. 😂

I have never questioned yours or anyone else commitment.

AGPs - who knows? They probably are mentally ill. That’s a huge question I can’t answer. That’s like saying are all murders mentally ill. All pedos etc. IMO you can’t be right in the head to do these things but that’s a whole other debate.

I am just giving my opinion. I have said my piece not much else to say on it.

I think the reason I am quite calm about it is I stepped back after that incident. I needed to rebuild my life. I have had a long time to process and let go of anger. And in a funny way am actually grateful for the whole thing. It changed my life in so many ways for the better. Not many have the chance to start from scratch.

I now only occasionally comment and name change regularly. Once it became mainstream I didn’t feel the need to campaign anymore. Better placed women did that and I am very grateful for that.

Anyway this thread isn’t about me so I will leave you all to it 😊

So you’re suggesting that we put the problem onto disabled people, who already have a difficult enough time as it is? So do disabled women not have the right to refuse to have men in their spaces?

Which of them ‘won’t be safe in the men’s’? And why? Where is the data for this often repeated statement, because I’ve yet to see it?

’It is a medical condition after all’ - is it? If it’s anything it’s a mental health issue, I don’t notice any special arrangements being made for anyone else with mental health conditions other than trans people, does their ‘safety’ not matter, do you advocate for them too? You seem convinced that trans people are a rarefied group who must at all times be considered above and beyond anyone else, why?

Edited to add that this is in response to @Unitarily's last post.

The context of this thread is that some people who haven't spoken out and put themselves on the line are trying to silence those of us who have (and still are, in my case). It wasn't clear to me from what you said that you weren't one of them: like the woman who has said she's GC and she supports me, but told me I should be ashamed of myself for speaking out.

I asked you to let us know if you'd been involved in the fight because I had no idea where you were coming from. I'm sorry you've been through what you've been through. It sounds terrible. But your initial post was very much in the spirit of all the 'be kind' TRA posters who prioritise men's feelings and want us to be nice and let men into our loos.

@PrettyDamnCosmic If it's not a mental condition then it must simply be a lifestyle choice.
Yes I think there is always a choice about how they live their lives, just how much attention they are seeking. How much pleasure do they get from their bullying?

‘They aren’t getting any kicks out of the disabled loos.’ I am genuinely trying not to respond with a knee jerk reaction to this statement, but I’d appreciate an explanation of what you mean by it.

Yes that’s outrageous. I thought it went without saying that person is a disgrace. You should not be ashamed. You should be very proud of what you have achieved!

I am not one of those people. I hand on heart can assure you.

I am just very conscious that we are now at a crucial point strategically. Being calm and measured is super important. Not saying you aren’t being; but some are not being calm! And I get that. I had that anger previously. It takes a long time to untwist that and let the blood pressure drop. Women have been through a lot.

But it’s very important we don’t cause backlash to this tide turn. Then we are at an even worse space than before. To rerun the argument for a second time (if the tide turns again) will be twice as hard; if not impossible.

I recently gave birth to my first daughter. I said to her this is a nice birthday present for you 😊 And I am hoping to god it will be and it sticks!

Ensuring the public sentiment and zeitgeist stays on our side is paramount!

Isn't that obvious? The pp is talking about people with a sexual fetish (not all trans people, as pp has made clear in her post) who enjoy going into women's toilets, won't get any thrill from being in a one-person disabled loo.

To rerun the argument for a second time (if the tide turns again) will be twice as hard; if not impossible.

Which is why we must hold the line now. You make concessions and offer help to rebuild after the peace treaty has been ratified. Not after the first advance.