AntiSocial on Radio 4 just after midday today (25 April)

[nauticant]

AntiSocial on Radio 4 looks each week at one of the rows in the "Culture Wars". As such, it positions itself as being part of the effort in the BBC to counter "misinformation" and while it does do that, there's clearly a strong secondary mission to promote the BBC's version of "progressive values".

This is the question they're dealing with today: What does the Supreme Court ruling on biological sex mean for the health service?

They've had programmes on about drag queens and other matters and tend to paint gender critical views as being somewhat extreme if not bigoted.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002b76x

Thought Bev was excellent. Cut right through all the bullshit that was fired at her.

Urg... listening now and Cleo just doesn't get a lot of things.

Cleo's getting a lot of attention so Cleo doesn't care.

All the flaming 'cisgender' crap too.

CC, I'm sure that you are right and that Cleo is revelling in the attention.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g misgendering in the 80s - another of those experiences that turns us into the fantastic people we are today
Interesting that he’s married to a woman - no wonder he was so pissed odd w Bev trying to defend the word ‘lesbian’ for women.
Round of applause for knottyauty whose info about London NHS trust policies made it on to the programme!!

Well done Bev.
The two men she had to contend with can get in the sea.

Yes, it's definitely this Cleo.

Feel sick for the women who had to share a female surgical ward with him.

I'm amazed. I listened to that speech about Section 28 and all the little queer kids, looked at his shorts and decided he was gay. How can someone who's rejected homosexuality and embraced heterosexuality be a spokesman for trans people? He's just a straight white bloke with lipstick.

I love horses and ponies with builders names. donkeys years ago, I used to ride a gentle giant of a horse called Steve. Always made me chuckle.

Very happy our audit got an oblique reference!

But my absolute favourite part was the turned tables. Where previously women had to explain why men shouldn’t be in our spaces… this time I enjoyed Cleo desperately trying to explain why being offered a single room was not a huge benefit. I think Bev managed to include a very slight/gentle suppressed giggle/scoff in her reply and even the host sounded unconvinced 🤣 Incomprehensible for most people that anyone would refuse the offer of a special third space that other people would regard as a privileged - without admitting it’s no good if women aren’t in it.

Bev was completely brilliant. Usually older women don’t fare well in an interview like this with a man because of biases. But with the male trying to sound like a woman, the biases worked against him. It was the calm, warm and reassuring Bev who was most convincing. You can see why so many wanted to stop her speaking!

Bev if you’re on here you were brilliant!
Thank you!

Bev was brilliant but I still wonder about the people who know nothing much about this and are inclined to think the whole thing is nothing to get worried about.

I'm reminded of the climate debate 25+ years ago. I'd hear climate scientists with concerns on the BBC warning about the problems stacking up and feel alarmed, but then the BBC would 'balance' the argument with a climate-denier. They'd be given a similar amount of time, they'd deny it all and I'd come away with the impression that this issue was nothing to worry about.

The BBC said it would learn from that, but here it is doing it again and allowing people to obfuscate and complicate and divert. And while everyone here sees through it because we know what's been happening, someone listening at home just shrugs and thinks it's all just a fuss about nothing. Instead of the biggest human-rights grab since WW2.

I had to listen to this yesterday without you guys cos I was driving - without you all, the outrage very nearly made my head explode.

Highlights - my tall woman friend with PEEKOS has facial hair so she's scared to go in the ladies because people think she's a man!

(Maybe it is just me, but are people pronouncing PCOS as peekos these days? I wondered if he said it like that so that most people wouldn't know what he was talking about, and would assume it was a rare disease that makes ladies look like tall bearded men - cos most of us listening who have PCOS will have been "surprised" to hear of the toilet experiences)

Nothing shows that Transwomen are men like their OUTRAGE at being offered a single room in hospital! FFS most/many women would be delighted - only a man could be sad not to be able to look at the other women (and presumably have girly chats/pillow fights).

And the interviewer asking Bev if she would be happy to fund these single rooms for TW! As if WOMEN were causing the extra expense by saying they didn't want to share with them. I think Bev was actually being very kind - in my car I was shouting about "well it's TW demanding not to be on men's wards that's causing the expense!" And hospitalshave a hard enough job finding (beds for anyone) side rooms for those with clinical need.

Sorry for ranty capitals, but thank you for listening and calming my exploding head.

Brilliant!

No other tests or embarrassing checks needed:

Simply ask a suspected trans woman if they’d care to have a private room/individual private loo?

Woman’s answer: Yes please where can I sign up?!

Trans Woman (biological male): Absolutely not. Segregation is outrageous. A private room is an infringement of my human rights - how dare you!

I’m not clever enough. Can someone make a picture meme of that please?

I wonder what transmen feel about all this? Do you think they are keeping quiet because they are secretly relieved they now have a legit reason not to be around men at their most vulnerable moments?

Looking on the GI website I don’t like how wide the age ranges for their support groups are, swimming especially.

How is it appropriate to have groups containing ages 12 - 25 year olds? The differences between a 12 year old and a 25 year old is exponential! How inappropriate… especially for swimming, too!

It's really poor safeguarding. Completely different stages of development and shouldn't be hanging out together.
I'm sure they'd say it's supervised but it's not once they leave is it, and the adults have reason to approach the kids if they see them in town or something.

I love this and I feel the same way. Without them none of this would have happened.

And the interviewer asking Bev if she would be happy to fund these single rooms for TW! As if WOMEN were causing the extra expense by saying they didn't want to share with them

Stella that's how I feel when I've been hearing men froth about all the 'extra expense' local councils will have to go to in order to provide proper toilet provision. My blood pressure has been ⬆️ ever since the ruling.

I know! It's as if a brother and sister have saved up a budget to launch their craft business. Brother goes out and buys all the tools. Right-handed versions. Sister is left-handed and needs at least some of the tools to be left-handed versions. Brother whinges about the cost or hassle of replacing at least some of the tools with LH versions. When he should have bought some LH ones in the first place.

Bev was very good.

But when they talked about NHS language I just wished that someone had pointed out how language manipulation leads to the (lack of) formal complaints about transwomen in women's hospital wards. If a patient says "there's a man in the women's ward" and the response is "no there isn't" then how can anyone complain?

Even if it doesn't get turned back on the patient for using "transphobic" language about another patient.

I just got a reply from LGBA

Hi MarieDeGournay,

Thank you for your email and for your donation.

We really appreciate your support and the support of other Mumsnet users as it allows us to continue our work on our campaigns, such as our new campaign on adoption and fostering and our recent call on the Government to ban the private prescription of cross-sex hormones to children. Your support also helps us with our other work, including our LGB Helpline and our Friends' Groups. We couldn't do all this without the support of our donors, so thank you again.

Kind regards,
Steven

Has anyone listened to the short from antisocial on the law? Not sure if these are broadcast on R4 as I mostly listen on sounds.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p0l6hzb3?partner=uk.co.bbc&origin=share-mobile