AntiSocial on Radio 4 just after midday today (25 April)

[nauticant]

AntiSocial on Radio 4 looks each week at one of the rows in the "Culture Wars". As such, it positions itself as being part of the effort in the BBC to counter "misinformation" and while it does do that, there's clearly a strong secondary mission to promote the BBC's version of "progressive values".

This is the question they're dealing with today: What does the Supreme Court ruling on biological sex mean for the health service?

They've had programmes on about drag queens and other matters and tend to paint gender critical views as being somewhat extreme if not bigoted.

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m002b76x

Yes.

Men have breasts too.
NHS has a problem with accommodating their staff correctly, let alone their patients.
NHS would have more money if they weren’t busy with posters, lanyards, asking 75yr old men if they may be pregnant, and witch hunts.

😡

Sorry was typing and listening! The bit I was talking about was anti-social’s reporter (Kate?) describing the history of single sex provision in the NHS and how that was changed by annex b to become single gender.
No specific corrections of Cleo and certainly to my ear Bev got pushed much more about what she was saying. Including what was essentially “but if you don’t agree with the language change in screening you’re making it more likely for transmen to get cervical cancer you big meanie Bev” from AF

So glad Bev got the last word in. She's so calm & collected.

This Cleo?

Yes, I would love to see a breakdown of time given to Bev vs Cleo.
In fact for any time this issue is discussed by the BBC, I'm finding time and again that the men are being given more time to speak than the women.
Maybe the BBC are secret transphobes and are subliminally signaling who is a man and who is a woman by maintaining the imbalance!

That was really good. Bev Jackson and Michael Foran were excellent on the law and what should happen next. Bev was compassionate but pointed out repeatedly that this isn't a change in the law and transpeople have been misled by Stonewall et al for years.

The only thing Cleo brought to the discussion was Cleo's hurt feelings.

Scot solidarity? 😉

I really wish Bev had said/was able to say to Cleo’s point about the cost to then NHS was that it wouldn’t be needed if trans ppl accepted being on wards that match their sex (I.e the law). It’s not women (or men) wanting SSA that mean additional/alternatives are needed for transgender patients but the attitude fro
trans people that treating them that way is not acceptable. I complete agree that there is a need to look at how to maintain dignity for everyone and I can see (and in fact have professional experience of many years ago when I worked in gynae) that a third space may well be the best option. But implying that this need is driven by ppl who want SSA is disingenuous to say the least.

And what about women self excluding because they can’t risk being around men, and the women who wa denied care because she wanted confirmation that her care team would be women.

I didn't hear the whole thing and must go back to listen to the start (I I have no idea who Cleo is), but the whole thing felt a bit 'shall we be following the law? Can we be bothered? Doesn't really apply to us, does it?'

Yes, you damn well will and we'll be watching you to make sure you do.

Cleo Madeleine

Gosh. I've never thought of choosing my lipstick to match my wallpaper.

Oh, this Cleo:

'I am Cleo Madeline I am a tall white trans woman I have long curly dark hair
spilling down the right hand side of my face, I'm wearing a pink strappy top and
kind of like leopard print shorts, but they're honestly a bit too short for a
work engagement... '

Talking about GI's youth work.

'... we do residentials we do Sport and physical activity we do everything the little queer kids that we were 20 years ago missed out on.'

Cleo’s final comments about trans people not being heard up until now. 🙄

As an aside, I have never heard so much hand wringing about the plight of transmen since the SC clarification.

Christ.

No, just a very naughty boy.

In view of the fact that Bev of LGBA played a blinder, according to your posts - I couldn't listen to the programme myself unfortunately- I hope it's OK to post something from the thread on Stonewall in Crisis:

MariadeiMiracoli · Yesterday 11:16
If anyone would like to celebrate by making a small donation to LGB Alliance, here they are. Bev and Kate were dragged through the courts on Stonewall's behalf by Stonewall's friend, Mermaids. Many of us will remember the batshit Stonewall crew, including the support-mum and support-dog.
https://lgballiance.org.uk/donate/

I posted:
MarieDeGournay · Yesterday 11:54
I've just donated AND I sent an email to LGBA so they know where the donations are coming from and why.
I hope this is OK with everyone, obviously not everyone on here is going to want to support/donate to LGBA but a good few have expressed support for them.

Here's the email I sent:
Hi I've just made a donation of £25 to you via PayPal.
I'm emailing you to let you know that I made the donation at the suggestion of a poster on the Feminism: Sex and gender discussions discussion board on Mumsnet.
We were discussing the situation at Stonewall and several posters commented that the LGB Alliance were doing the work that we used to admire Stonewall for doing, and somebody suggested backing that up with donations.
So if you see an uptick in donations, it's not random, it's an expression of support from this corner of Mumsnet
Thank you for your important work,
regards,

Lots of posters came back to say they had donated to LGBA and some also set up regular donations.
https://lgballiance.org.uk/donate/
Bev & Co will know that any donations that come in around now are from us

Thank you for the thread - I will try and listen this afternoon. I had given up on R4, TBH.

Fucks sake, if I hadn't peaked many times already that website would sure as Hell do it

Perhaps someone should tell them that if they put the public face of Gendered Intelligence, Head of Public Engagement, at the bottom of the webpage, that will get visitors to scroll all the way through the whole staff which might not be an optimum outcome.

A guy at the stables where I ride says he wants to buy a load of young ponies to train and give them "builders' names" like Barry, Steve and Les.

I think I might set up a rival yard and call my ponies Blu, Biff, Fox and Orange.

Can I just express my admiration for the way Bev Jackson not only expressed herself clearly and intelligently, but also avoided using pronouns for Cleo throughout? Brava Bev!

Oh.

It might be a useful naming scheme for a Rescue - they tend use names as a group - like the seal rescuers naming them after biscuits.