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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Bridget Philipson- TW should use toilets according to biological Sex.

340 replies

LizzieSiddal · 22/04/2025 08:19

On R4 at 7.50!!

She said she spoke on behalf of the government, they welcome the judgement and it is now clear, provision must be based on Biological Sex!

Apologies for posting then running (have an appt to get to). but didn’t see another thread on this.

(If you have the sounds App you should easily beable to go to 7.50 and listen)

OP posts:
Thread gallery
12
MyHeartyCoralSnail · 22/04/2025 12:02

Datun · 22/04/2025 11:37

He'll hand it over, put some space between him and all the action points, get someone else to deal with it, so he's not constantly asked about it.

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His usual tactic is to hand it over to Angela Raynor like he did in Covid. Never likes to get his hands dirty. I’m hoping he’s gone soon and replaced with someone who always knew women didn’t have a penis. Surely Labour knows that’s an albatross round their neck.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2025 12:03

Angela Rayner has always been TRA, I’m trying to imagine her saying that biological sex matters.

SternJoyousBee · 22/04/2025 12:05

StressedLP1 · 22/04/2025 10:12

You forgot the “and then throw piss at people” requirement.

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Is it possible the TRAs peed on their own chips on Saturday?

WarriorN · 22/04/2025 12:05

Keeptoiletssafe · 22/04/2025 09:35

How and who do I get my evidence to to make the most difference in government now?

I have written to loads of MPs and not one has written back.

have you written to Bridget?

Datun · 22/04/2025 12:06

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2025 11:58

I remember one of the men had a cardboard sign which said “Keep Mumsnet out of Politics” 😂

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Oh dear.

still, I can see his point 🤣🤣🤣

Mumofoneandone · 22/04/2025 12:07

LizzieSiddal · 22/04/2025 08:21

Just to add, the interviewer seems obsessed with toilets, but BP did a good job of also taking about other spaces.

Toilets kept being focused on by the interviewer because BP kept dodging the question/refused to state that trans women need to use the male toilets if not unisex/disabled toilet available.
Great that BP is stating that the government support the ruling but will have to see how it plays out over the coming months in actual action.

Datun · 22/04/2025 12:09

RobinEllacotStrike · 22/04/2025 11:50

Did the interviewer think if she asked the question 3 times on the third time Philpson would say "oh actually TW should use whatever facility they want to use?"

Bizarre interviewing.

Good on BP - please keep single sex spaces for women & girls.

I think she was pushing for the word gents, or men's.

She could likely get away with saying transwomen, so kept her hands clean, but as there are no toilets called transwomen's, I imagine she wanted Bridget to say an unequivocal 'men's toilet'.

cardibach · 22/04/2025 12:09

Felinnefine · 22/04/2025 10:08

Agree with the shadow home sec

Edited

I have no time for anything Philp says. He’s objectionable.
The government has welcomed the clarity. Move on. Stop trying to pretend the Tories were brilliant on it, because they weren’t.

mrshoho · 22/04/2025 12:10

Very good to hear this from Bridget Phillipson speaking on behalf of the Labour Party.

I had the displeasure of seeing Robin Moira on GMB talking nonsense this morning. When asked what toilet he would be using "the Women's" of course.

MarieDeGournay · 22/04/2025 12:15

Why third spaces? More importantly, how third spaces? [actually fourth spaces because there already are women's, men's and accessible toilets - which are only for disabled people, and as a PP pointed out 'being trans is a choice not a disability', so hands off the accessible toilets!].

Has anybody given any thought to where these fourth spaces are going to be
located in buildings? How much it is going to cost to construct them? Where are bankrupt local authorities going to find the money to provide 'third' spaces in every public building in case one of the 262,000 transpeople out of a population of nearly 70m wants to pee in that specific building and chooses not to use the toilet designated for their biological sex?

'Third' spaces are being presented as a silver bullet but I'm going to keep repeating: on a practical and financial level, they would be expensive and disruptive and as there's nothing really stopping transpeople from using the toilets designated for their sex, except their own feelings, the expense and disruption is just not warranted.

I love the 'this men's space welcomes transwomen sign', though wouldn't it be better if the 'female' figure was also blue??

A new stickering campaign suggests itself😏

SternJoyousBee · 22/04/2025 12:16

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2025 10:27

You do realise that a “trans woman” is any man who says he is a woman? So this statement doesn’t make sense 🤷‍♀️

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This sums up the problem. The people who think that transwomen are these wee vulnerable creatures who have had extensive surgeries and no longer have their cock and balls. The majority irrespective of having hormone induced or surgically inserted boobs retain their cock and balls. I wouldn’t want to be in the same county building as that rabble on Saturday never mind in the same toilets

EveryonesTalkingRubbish · 22/04/2025 12:18

autumn1610 · 22/04/2025 10:41

You’re all jumping on me for a question when you don’t know my view or asked about it. I dont feel comfortable with either if I’m being honest 🤷‍♀️ some trans males are very masculine presenting so that was my question about TM in women’s spaces. It’s also uncomfortable

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I believe that this was covered in the judgement, so that if a trans man (ie a woman) presented very strongly as a man, they could be excluded from a women’s single sex space and it wouldn’t be discrimination. Perhaps someone who is a lawyer/has read the judgement will answer your question.

I had assumed that this judgement put everyone firmly into their biological group, but I thought I had read this exception somewhere. Apologies if I’m wrong.

Felinnefine · 22/04/2025 12:22

Pluvia · 22/04/2025 11:32

I wonder whether the people who thought doing mass lobotomies on women who had opinions and depression and were 'difficult' thought it was the return of the olden days when lobotomies were discredited and vilified? Or maybe they were just grateful that the patriarchal insanity was over and moved on.

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What?

EveryonesTalkingRubbish · 22/04/2025 12:22

EveryonesTalkingRubbish · 22/04/2025 12:18

I believe that this was covered in the judgement, so that if a trans man (ie a woman) presented very strongly as a man, they could be excluded from a women’s single sex space and it wouldn’t be discrimination. Perhaps someone who is a lawyer/has read the judgement will answer your question.

I had assumed that this judgement put everyone firmly into their biological group, but I thought I had read this exception somewhere. Apologies if I’m wrong.

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Sorry for duplication, I see @Datun has already answered this.

SternJoyousBee · 22/04/2025 12:24

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/04/2025 10:38

Yes the ruling applies both ways.

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The ruling covered the situation of ‘passing’ transmen. They could actually be excluded from women’s single sex spaces. Not saying that will happen but a service provider could legitimately do so.

Datun · 22/04/2025 12:25

EveryonesTalkingRubbish · 22/04/2025 12:22

Sorry for duplication, I see @Datun has already answered this.

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Yes, it was a nice, totally shocking, bit of common sense!

Frankly, I think all these hypothetical what ifs will fade away. You'll get a bit of performative look where I am, but then it will die down.

Merrymouse · 22/04/2025 12:26

mrshoho · 22/04/2025 12:10

Very good to hear this from Bridget Phillipson speaking on behalf of the Labour Party.

I had the displeasure of seeing Robin Moira on GMB talking nonsense this morning. When asked what toilet he would be using "the Women's" of course.

I don’t doubt it.

Given what he has said so far, I would imagine that he would like to be denied access so that he can go to tribunal.

Datun · 22/04/2025 12:27

I thought I'd spotted a gap in the market, and was about to make millions, but it appears someone else was there already.

I asked Google if there was an app that identifies gender neutral toilets.

Yes, there are apps that help identify gender-neutral toilets. One popular app is Refuge Restrooms. It allows users to find and add locations of gender-neutral, single-stall, and LGBTQ+ friendly restrooms.

Datun · 22/04/2025 12:28

mrshoho · 22/04/2025 12:10

Very good to hear this from Bridget Phillipson speaking on behalf of the Labour Party.

I had the displeasure of seeing Robin Moira on GMB talking nonsense this morning. When asked what toilet he would be using "the Women's" of course.

Was there any pushback?

TwoLoonsAndASprout · 22/04/2025 12:28

Datun · 22/04/2025 11:32

Thank you.

And I've just listened to the Bridget Phillipson interview.

It sounds to me as though the labour party are going to latch onto the fact that the solution to all this isn't binary.

That unisex spaces exist, and that places will be encouraged to provide them.

I sincerely hope they encourage them to be in addition to single sex bases, but I'm not holding my bloody breath.

There may have to be some more cases based on the fact that women are disadvantaged by unisex provision.

After all, it's only a handful of pervy, nasty creeps, who tried to get into women's refuges, or were sent to women's prisons, etc.

In terms of validation, it's all about the toilets. Which is why the protests are so vociferous and violent. The validation has been removed in one fell swoop.

still, Starmer, it would appear, has had to pretty much accept the ruling.

Now all he can do is not be enthusiastic about it.

Edited
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If you look at all the information @Keeptoiletssafe has provided us on here, it really needs to be the case that there are single-sex toilets, with a door gap, for safety reasons. If you collapse in a public toilet with a floor-to-ceiling door, no one will know you’re there until it’s possibly too late.

SerafinasGoose · 22/04/2025 12:29

Nominative · 22/04/2025 09:03

But it's a bit meaningless, isn't it? It's not as if anyone polices entry to the toilets. I suspect lots of TW who have quietly been using women's toilets for years without anyone noticing will just continue.

Of course they've been noticed.

ItsCoolForCats · 22/04/2025 12:29

CorruptedCauldron · 22/04/2025 12:05

Some of the comments in the Guardian 🙄 Apparently it's all to do with the rise of fascism and what will we do when we have six foot muscly trans men in our loos. Honestly, I am so sick of these sanctimonious morons spouting off, when they haven't made even the smallest attempt to understand the issues.

Merrymouse · 22/04/2025 12:30

MarieDeGournay · 22/04/2025 12:15

Why third spaces? More importantly, how third spaces? [actually fourth spaces because there already are women's, men's and accessible toilets - which are only for disabled people, and as a PP pointed out 'being trans is a choice not a disability', so hands off the accessible toilets!].

Has anybody given any thought to where these fourth spaces are going to be
located in buildings? How much it is going to cost to construct them? Where are bankrupt local authorities going to find the money to provide 'third' spaces in every public building in case one of the 262,000 transpeople out of a population of nearly 70m wants to pee in that specific building and chooses not to use the toilet designated for their biological sex?

'Third' spaces are being presented as a silver bullet but I'm going to keep repeating: on a practical and financial level, they would be expensive and disruptive and as there's nothing really stopping transpeople from using the toilets designated for their sex, except their own feelings, the expense and disruption is just not warranted.

I love the 'this men's space welcomes transwomen sign', though wouldn't it be better if the 'female' figure was also blue??

A new stickering campaign suggests itself😏

The unisex space defined in H&S legislation - an enclosed room for single person occupancy.

Many small employers only have this kind of provision.