Bridget Philipson- TW should use toilets according to biological Sex.

[LizzieSiddal]

On R4 at 7.50!!

She said she spoke on behalf of the government, they welcome the judgement and it is now clear, provision must be based on Biological Sex!

Apologies for posting then running (have an appt to get to). but didn’t see another thread on this.

(If you have the sounds App you should easily beable to go to 7.50 and listen)

Im a taller, more muscular woman who tends to dress in quite typically masculine ways eg jeans and hoodie. I would feel pretty embarrassed if someone challenges me in a woman's toilet and asks me if I'm a man. I'm not going to thank them for it. And then, how do I prove I'm a woman if they don't believe me? Maybe I'll get a badge.

It’s almost like the actual problem is men making spaces unsafe in the first place…

That seems to be left out of so much discourse. And is why I cannot stand men advocating for TW in women’s spaces. If we were safe and equal we wouldn’t have to have so many separate spaces in the first place!

🎯100% yes.
If there was an infinite amount of money and space available, sure. But there isn't.

Glad to see this thread. NRTFT but I am worried by what I have read on BBC News coverage of this interview with BP. Will the government start advising businesses and services to simply offer gender neutral toilets provision as a response to the recent Supreme Court decision?

The ministers are not saying ‘but you must also continue to provide single sex women’s toilets’. Obviously we don’t know what EHRC will advise yet, but I am concerned that the government is ‘getting ahead’ on this issue like this in the media. I don’t want men in women’s toilets, and I don’t want women’s toilets to be given away to be gender neutral spaces either. Women’s toilets are our spaces that we need as women. I don’t care at all what gender anyone wants to perform in there as long as they are female.

Gender neutral toilets do NOT provide any equivalent to women’s single sex toilets. It’s about women being able to be privately only in the company of other women. And GN toilets are horrible. No women want to be mopping men’s piss before they or their kids can use public toilets, nor should we have to deal with men leaving the GN cubicle door open so we have to walk in unbeknownst and see them using the toilets.

Following all the years of strife to get to this excellent Supreme Court decision of 2025 re Equality Act 2010, it would be a tragic consequence if women’s toilets start disappearing. I think single sex women’s toilets are under threat.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c5y42zzwylvo
Bridget Phillipson managed a women’s refuge before becoming an MP, and yet even she seems to be saying that gender neutral is the way forward. This is so wrong. It’s fine to have a third space toilet where that can be accommodated, but it’s absolutely not fine to remove women’s single sex provision entirely. Nor to relabel that as ‘gender neutral’ which I can see many cash-strapped businesses doing.

And. which will cause an outrage amongst some men, it needs to be argued loudly that if any single sex provision must be removed to accommodate third spaces, then the provision to be removed must only be taken away from men’s single sex toilets provision. Not from the women’s toilets- women have a lot more reason to need a single sex spaces.

You would think that TM would find it pretty 'validating' to be challenged in the women's toilets. So in a way it is a win for them. (?)

Wow, I can’t believe that they’ve actually got comments switched on on a trans article! I guess they can’t avoid it when it’s on the live politics page.

and as there's nothing really stopping transpeople from using the toilets designated for their sex, except their own feelings

Per the law trans men may be excluded from women’s toilets.

I was going to say that the app would be useful in pointing out places to avoid.

But there are places which have mixed sex toilets so would be included on that app, but also have single sex facilities. I wouldn't necessarily avoid them, I'd just use the latter.

So perhaps another app is needed.

Yes indeed. And I'm all for it. Any mixed sex facility will still have to have gaps

I think Pluvia thinks that you are jeering at the acceptance of non-conformity as being old-fashioned. I may be wrong!

I’ve not said anything of the sort. They were better than Labour though, on this issue. We have the receipts, as they say.

The only people here who keep referring to such things, seems to be people protecting Labour and Starmer. ‘Move on’? That’s laughable for people who continually say ‘but the last 14 years..’ hey ho

This is about Starmer and Labour not any other party. And how he needs to provide a statement retracting his previous statements about women having penises (for example), and apologise for the consequences of his party’s ’previous’ position on this. As I have mentioned above in more detail.

Not sure why that’s difficult to grasp.

I sincerely hope you are right. In which case, what we are currently witnessing may be what the psychologists refer to as an 'extinction burst'.

Grant that it may be so.

Gender neutral facilities have issues. I used the local swimming pool with a gender neutral “changing village” I was met with a naked man at his locker who apparently “forgot his towel” who was so embarrassed he stood there and said “bet thats woke you up”. I reported him to the police - who to be fair were very good trying to track him down and keeping me informed. But gender neutral areas are not the answer.

Had a similar experience at a public swimming baths. Totally agree with you.

Slightly off topic but is the gap legally required for H&S?

my work loos have floor to ceiling doors on the cubicles and it’s always made me a bit nervous!!

Not providing separate single sex toilets for women is likely to be sex discrimination.

All the coffee shops in my area only have one loo that serves everyone inc disabled and baby change. I’d rather have separate but they don’t have space.

If anyone wants to look, the frothing from men is quite something.

Oh not this 'they've been using your spaces for years' bs. NO, they have NOT! They stand out, so we'd know. And we used to be able to call the police and have then arrested for indecent exposure if they did.

Also, 'well they've always broken the law and violated your spaces and boundaries so why stop them now' is not the gotcha argument you think it is @Nominative .

It's my understanding that they were originally told to design them with gaps, for all the reasons, and then transactivism got involved.

I don't think there's a law, as such, only guidance.

I will page @Keeptoiletssafe who is our resident expert, though.

It’s grim.

An example.. ‘The moment trans women are forced to use male spaces, is the moment that the attacks on us go up, we end up with illnesses because we don't want to risk peeing in male toilets or we hide away at home.’

The. Fucking. Irony.

i'm guessing it's that they have never had a chance to be educated on this, because they've never seen any other comments.

Most women wear jeans and hoodies and trainers.

It is very unlikely that somebody would think you are a man unless they have very poor eyesight and they certainly won’t think you are a trans woman.

Women who have had hormone treatment that deepens their voices and masculinises their appearance, including detransitioners, are potentially in a difficult position.

That will be the (entirely imaginary) urinary leash.

Best start campaigning for your own loos...

very much all of the above.

as pp have said, and @Keeptoiletssafehas spent a lot of time setting out, fully contained unisex loos without gaps aren’t safe for other health reasons.

its also a situation whereby the more of these toilets that are built, the more there will be awful data on instances of people collapsing in them and not being noticed.

True safeguarding anticipates risk and puts measures into place to minimise those risks. It will be very difficult to reverse once these spaces are created.