How are you tackling this in real life?

[SpidersAreShitheads]

I’ve had lots of online discussions about the Supreme Court ruling online. I’m also lucky in that I’m self-employed so have never had to hide my GC views.

However I have a gay, male friend who historically has been a very close friend of mine. Politically he’s centre-right. Lets call friend “Kevin”.

About two years ago DP and Kevin had an epic fall-out over Whatsapp and they’ve not spoken since. Long story but it was about women’s rights. Kevin said women’s language didn’t matter and that women were making a fuss. He also refused to accept women were at risk and insisted that the trans community are just like the gay community of the 1980s and being unfairly victimised by the nasty women 🙄 DP was furious because he felt Kevin had shown he didn’t care about the safety of women and girls.

Kevin and I have had debates over the years where he wouldn’t accept that women were at more of a risk (or even equal risk) than gay men eg/when walking home late at night. To be clear, I’ve never dismissed the challenges gay men face nor the fact that in some circumstances, gay men are in danger. We all know that homophobia is sadly only too real. I’ve been a vocal ally over the years. But he has always seemed unwilling to recognise the risks for women.

Interestingly, Kevin has always been adamant that he’d never be intimate with a trans man and he’s actively repulsed by boobs and vaginas. So not accepting trans men as men, but women have to move over and accept trans women as women? 😕

Kevin’s promiscuity has increased as he’s reached his 50s. I think part of his views is that he needs to be seen to be actively supporting trans rights to continue being part of the LGBTQ community - which is obviously essential for his sex life.

I’ve struggled with the friendship because of his views for the last couple of years and we’re no longer close as we were. Some other things unrelated to this have happened but his views are undeniably a factor. He will never recognise my point of view as valid and to me, that feels as if he doesn’t care about the wellbeing of me and my DD.

Tonight he’s shared Pedro Pascale’s post and I snapped and commented publicly. Normally I’d just eye-roll and scroll past.

He’s asleep so hasn’t seen my reply yet. I’m having an internal debate about whether to just delete my comment.

I’m aware that society has gotten very tribal and we should be able to have friends who think differently to us. But this feels so fundamental to me - I’m so utterly sick of society’s misogyny I don’t know if I can just overlook it in someone who’s supposed to be a good friend.

Those of you with GC views, are you as vocal in real life? Or do you just internally eye-roll and ignore? I’m autistic/ADHD and I tend to have big, intense feelings - I really can’t tell if I’m being unreasonable to feel as strongly as I do. Maybe partially being driven by peri rage 🫣😂 Would you just stay quiet? Would you struggle with the friendship?

I’ll attach screenshots. If you know me in RL, please keep this confidential 🙏

I haven’t spoken to many people about it, i think the few people I talked to before the ruling were on the same page as me

i have had two ‘heated’ discussions with son in law, one yesterday and one on friday…I am waiting for todays one 😀 he isn’t up yet

he is a teacher and will be marching with his union, the march ‘title’ is TWAW. He and I agree on about 90% but he is a wee bit more on the ‘rights have been removed’ side, he is naturally worried about transpeople and thinks that there will be ramifications such as increased transphobia

i don’t disagree but now the focus for transpeople should be tackling transphobia

i have got angry at two points, one when he said that there are a lot of trans hating women….no mention of men and he is honestly completely ignorant of everything that has been happening to women around this topic…

ds1 had to step in and back me up when it came to the nhs changing the word women and kier saying that women could have a penis, death threats etc

he had no idea that female toilets have been changed to mixed sex in some places and the mens left alone

his transman friend is keeping their head down as they appreciate that they are not really affected by the ruling

No true at all. Every gay man I know has loads of female friends and they've been some of my closest friends too. Only men I've ever had hate me have been straight cis men.

Kevin is probably just miffed why she's so riled up about 0.5% of the population and wonders if she's equally intolerant about gay people secretly. A lot of people who hate being around one kind of minority hold similar views about others.

Sub-point but Pedro Pascal's brother is now his 'sister' so he has massive skin in the game.

He's very easy on the eye but anti-women men repulse me so an enjoyable crush has completely evaporated. Shame.

You are dismissing my and others experience and calling us liars.

And you really, really don't 'get it'. This is NOT about 'trans' people. It never was. This is about MALES. Males are 50% of the population. They are NOT a 'minority'. You don't get to put a fully intact male in a dress, re-label him as 'trans', then claim that male is a minority therefore deserves to violate females hard won sex-based rights. Wanting female only spaces does not mean we 'hate' males, however they identify. And gay males have never sought to enter our spaces.

Same

Hey I know Kevin is a long time friend and I don’t like to generalise but unfortunately his perspective is typical of gay men in this country. I’m a lesbian and the support from gay men on this issue is non - existent. I don’t personally believe the tropes about them being misogynistic. I believe that like all men they just do not understand what it is to fear another man - maybe some do because of adverse sexual experiences but mostly gay men remain unaffected by a lot of issues that a hetro man might take an interest in as they date women.

Pedro’s Pascal (I know he isn’t gay) but his statement about nasty - whatever he called GC women complaining about a tiny minority who aren’t affecting them is another example. There have been multiple incidents of sexual assault reported in American press in female jails, perpetrator being tims. It’s like they just erase statistics like 99% of sexual violence is perpetrated towards women by men. Celebrate like Pedro also couldn’t care less about lesbians. Lesbians are the bottom of the female pile in this debate and since I peaked I wish I wasn’t one.

you friend Kevin sees it through the discrimination lense because gay men are still very angry and sensitive (understandably ) about the aids cross and being the most visible members of the gay community during section 28 era. Those men are really hard to talk round.

ive found my biggest ally in this mess straight women. The majority of lesbians have folded (publicly and ones I know personally). They’ve thrown GC women to the wolves. All of it is such a mess

OP forgot to say - if I were you I’d delete the comment. He might make an example out of you publicly x

I'm involved with DEI at work so I have gritted my teeth and said nothing personally. Professionally, I noted the judgement and asked to be advised of any policies being rewritten. No real response.

I have said before that I am ashamed of not speaking up more but I cannot risk my family life. Without my income, we could lose our home 😞

Kevin is not your friend. Germaine Greer once said that women don’t realise how much men hate them, and it’s an unsavoury truth that there is a cohort of gay men who REALLY hate women.

I had a massive argument with family last night. My son was so nasty to me I ended up in tears. He believes trans women are actual women and I simply cannot fathom how he can possibly continue to think that. My SIL is quite thick and generally does the ‘be kind’ thing. She piled on me last night, asking me is a trans woman had ever won a medal that I should have, or attacked me in a woman’s toilet? Because, you know, ‘this never happens’. Her friend Brenda-who-used-to-be-called-Wayne is a ‘lovely woman’ who was born in the wrong body. Poor Brenda has had a very hard time of it.
i know I should say nothing. Not talk about religion, politics or gender critical beliefs with people I love, but it makes me so angry.

‘Sadly, a lot of gay men truly, truly hate women. It's sad, but true. In fact, they find women physically, and emotionally - repulsive. So they cannot empathise with us. Sadly, they don't see us as humans’

Unfortunately this has been my experience too. I would leave the post up. This guy is not your friend and on some level he despises you. You don’t need him in your life.

Sorry that happened Persephone, it’s particularly hard to see women like your SIL arguing in favour of giving away their rights.

Keep the comment up, it’s totally reasonable. Kevin is a misogynist, Gay men aren’t immune to it, unfortunately!