Aren’t the front pages and headlines glorious!

[SameyMcNameChange]

I know there is a fair amount of bandwagon jumping, but it feels like the newspapers have finally read the room and realised that the SC ruling is welcomed by FAR more people than it disappoints. And so the front pages have smiling faces and headlines that would never have been published before.

Even, for example, the Metro which has had a pretty shocking record before has a pretty clear headline and a picture of smiling women.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czd3jg60q4no

@OneGreatReadercan you say? I’m interested too.

Your question is an interesting one and one which I had hoped someone would ask. Unfortunately my answer to it is not short and is taking some time to explain. Please bear with me, I will respond, but it may not be today.

I'll add another question then if you're interested in answering?

Would you support the destruction of those women's protections and rights in the Equality Act to better benefit men?

Eastern Standard, since your question and that of Mrshoho and Old Crone are very similar I ask that you bear with me. I will respond but it maybe not today.

I did indeed miss that as it was further down the thread.

I’m very sorry for what happened to you. It’s horrendous. I hope you got justice - realising that it’s unlikely that your attacker was punished as rape is almost legalised due to the poor rate of prosecution in the UK.

I would say though that first post did not say that you were expressing your own feelings based on your own experience. So your first post was still in poor taste. You said all trans people felt that way - which is hyperbole and why you got some robust push back. 1 in 2 women have been sexually assaulted so we understand the feelings you describe - but it’s men who should be held to account. Not women. You’re here arguing with the wrong sex class.

Given your experiences can I ask why have you opted to press for access to women’s spaces (allowing attackers a loophole to access women) rather than safe spaces for your community? Why are you posting on mumsnet complaining rather than asking Stonewall for answers?

This.

A long answer might trigger a mansplaing alert. Just give us the bullet points - or link to an article that captures your position.

Bullet points?

What’s the question?

Good grief... they are still wanging on about which media outlet we can and can't read?

And bringing back that link to nazism.... comedy gold 😂

YOU HAVEN'T HAD ANY LEGAL RIGHTS TAKEN OFF YOU, YOU FUCKING MUPPETS

being told that stopping men breaking the law and entering unconsenting women's spaces is like rape is a new one. Utterly ridiculous.

Worth reminding you that due to what women read, write, talk about, campaign on, and lobby for, we've just won our rights back.

As a survivor myself I find it a pretty offensive comparison. Other people can conceptualise it how they want, but to me it’s complete misogynistic hyperbole.

I think for myself. There is no existing article that I am aware of that captures my position. I will do my best to keep it as succinct and short as possible.

Thank you for empathising.

I only learnt last week that the teacher involved was arrested about ten years ago and was charged with dozens of counts of sexual offences against pupils from my school. He escaped justice by taking his own life. After more than 50 years though I finally got validation for my memories. I have though two more memories from the same period of a far worse nature that I doubt that I will ever get validation for. Carrying such memories for so many years without resolution or validation is exhausting

I was speaking about myself and many other transgender women who I know have been raped - not all transgender women - when I made my original post.

Have any of you ever sat down with a transgender woman and told each other your life stories?

I don't like being angry and judgemental.I very rarely am. The celebration thing though really triggered me. More memories. 😥
As another poster has said, had the decision gone the other way they would probably have felt the same as me if they had seen pics of trans women celebrating.

Why am I here? I guess I am tired of people agreeing with me. I like to see things from new and opposite perspectives. I like to have my thinking challenged - although perhaps not too much.😊

I hate the polarisation this issue has caused. Both sides seem to be shouting at each other and nobody is listening. Everybody seems willing to settle for less than the ideal solution- a solution where nobody is a loser and nobody ends up feeling hurt.

Have any of you ever sat down with a transgender woman and told each other your life stories?

I have. I have known two through a contract I was working on.
Both were taking strong drugs (medical) and were obviously troubled. I had no issue with either and wished them well.
In fact, I did voluntarily help with some everyday things that were new to them.

They were both pleasant, unassuming and afaik, never tried to get into the women's toilet. I don't doubt that most trans people want to live quietly and just be themselves , and I believe most people would agree, and support any 3rd spaces needed

But that's completely different to the abusive, arrogant, threatening and entitled behaviour that is prevalent now. There is no excuse for riding over women's rights, and the threats against women are doing trans people no favours.

Have any of you ever sat down with a transgender woman and told each other your life stories?

Many TW have come on FWR and told us all about them and their perspective in depth. The threads are all here.

It was however a one way street with absolutely no interest in hearing or caring about women's side of things. It always is. Just a download to the service humans, often reproachful or paternal, based on the whole idea that women are just not yet fully understanding the problem and if they did they'd abandon their own feelings, needs, lives etc and serve as desired.

I think Hayton made the most significant performance of 'listening' which ended with a kindly head pat and an explanation that since the women had no reasons or excuses about their privacy and dignity that Hayton personally found worth minding about, Hayton's executive decision was that Hayton would go on using women's spaces. Hayton was a bit taken aback at women not womening properly and this not ending the problem.

No. Rather in the same way that I’ve never done that with any women either. I’m quite busy and tbh until a few weeks ago I was in the BeKind mental space until I heard Dr Upton’s disturbing views espoused on the stand - no BeKind directed at women; zero reciprocity. I then took time to dissect my own attitudes and whether I was transphobic. And it re-surfaced memories of sexual assault and abusive teachers. All male of course but I’ve no idea if they’re now trans. That’s not the bit thats a problem for me - it’s the male sex. The entitlement. The taking what they want and sod the rest of us. Just like you e experienced. Some males will go to extreme lengths to get what they want. Unfortunately the people in your community who pushed too hard on women and didnt listen or empathise have done you wrong. I wouldn’t have minded what I’d regard as old-school-transsexuals (using old language for clarity) sharing spaces with women. Live and let live. But when people started losing their jobs for objecting to the trans people who behave poorly and risk losing jobs then thats hardened my opinion. Now I’m forced to say one line for all. It’s sad - but you need to get out and decry things and say not in your name. Have you read the details of Rose in the Darlington nurses case? Rose walked around in their boxer shorts with their penis prominently displayed.They asked the women why they weren’t undressing and spoke of getting their girlfriend pregnant. Until you get these jokers off your team, no one’s going to listen any more. People were liberal and they feel cheated. I wish you the best of luck

I am sorry for any offence caused. I am also sorry to hear that you are also a survivor. I will try to be more thoughtful in my choice of words next time.

What part do you not understand from the SC ruling?

No rights were taken away. No rights were given. The law was clarified and it turns out organisations and government offices have been breaking the law.

That is it.

How do you know he was a man?

A very simple question which is the absolute and quite simple crux of the SC judgement.

This really bears repeating.

For a certain group of people to make it all about themselves rather speaks volumes.

I am one of those old school transsexuals. "Primary transsexual" was what I was diagnosed as. Things were much easier and then. I lived in CA for about 20 years, after being disowned by my mother. I did not come back to this country until 2012. I was amazed and shocked by the changes that had taken place over here with respect to attitudes towards trans people. I have never had any say in determining trans policies. I actually hate politics and am not involved in the trans community either.

I know what you mean about the entitlement. I was sent to a top public school and was disgusted by what I saw and heard there especially the attitudes towards women. I could not wait to leave. I decided I would much rather be one of the oppressed than an oppressor. I would not have been able to live with myself otherwise. It has been interesting to observe how old male acquaintances have changed in how they relate to me. I am now assumed to be incompetent at everything.They just seem to think they are intrinsically superior. With respect to women's only spaces I started out by using the disabled toilet at my workplace because I did not want to offend any of the female staff. It was only after the female staff were consulted by my manager and I was given the go ahead to use them did I start using them.I don't know anything about the nurse Rose case. I try to avoid the news as much as possible. How you describe it though it sounds nauseatingly familiar.

I guess because if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like duck it's a duck. I think that is how most people decided what the sex was of a person back then.