Is it possible to be a feminist and also have some empathy for transgender people today?

[HoundOfTheBasketballs]

I’m not going to pretend I’m an expert here but everything feels incredibly polarised. Like, either you’re with us or you’re against us.
Is there no middle ground in this debate?
I am, and always have been a feminist, but I know and like people who are trans and non-binary. I can’t be the only person feeling confused and conflicted, can I?

And what?

Some of us find the concept of 'womanhood' being a 'feeling' fundamentally offensive and deeply misogynistic. Not to mention how this performative womanhood manifests itself - ridiculous clothing, make-up and wigs it's absolutely regressive. I will not stop calling it out. There is a tiny minority of genuine sufferers of gender dysphoria, the rest are asking us to buy into their paraphilia. So I have minimal time for this insistence that we must continue to empathise and cater for these people by providing 'safe' spaces.

I don’t think any of the trans women I know would demand these things. They acknowledge changing rooms and toilets are contentious issues and they want to find an answer that accommodates everyone.
@HoundOfTheBasketballs and who do you think will be doing all the lovely 'accommodating'?! Of course we woman can 'just make room alongside' us can't we.....

Why is it our job to make transwomen ie men happy and safe?

'why can't women support transwomen'

because, contrary to popular opinion, we are not human support animals.

Trans women are not women and it damages women to stretch the definition. So much of women’s experience is defined by the reality of their biology in a way that anyone born male can never really understand.
The reality of menstruation, the risk of pregnancy occurring and the impact of pregnancy and childbirth on health, work and domestic life. The physical reality of being smaller and weaker than most men. The differing health needs and the medical misogyny that means women’s health issues are mislabelled as anxiety and/or under researched.

If we cannot describe ourselves as a class with reference to the reality of our biology then we cannot truly enforce fairness and equity based on our needs.

Trans identified people rightly have protections from discrimination. However, their experience is not the same as the sex class they identify with and so the protections trans identified people need are not aligned to the protections women need.

It is better for both groups that they are seen as separate and given tailored support.

Man bashing never solved anything

Why is it women’s job to fight trans people’s battles for them? I don’t remember them doing that for us. Why are women the ones who have to fix everything? Men need to accept that some other men are gender nonconforming: make up, dresses, whatever. It’s up to men to sort this stuff out between them.

Sexism in society is never more obvious than when people either demand or wheedle on behalf of these men.

'man bashing never solved anything'

are those facts stated hurtful?

So facts are man bashing? Ignoring facts never solved anything.

But why @Diverze ?

There's no need to call her a man, that's hurtful.

The reality is that she is a man because she is biologically male.

I guess it's a bit like calling someone fat to their face, or ugly.

… which implies there’s something wrong with being male. Why on earth would you or she think that? How is that helpful?

Well, if trans women are not safe in male toilets, they're not going to be safe in unisex ones either because men are in those. Or are you expecting women to protect them from men? That isn't going to work, because women are also at more risk in unisex toilets.

Sure. The middle ground is that trans and non-binary people are absolutely welcome in the single-sex spaces of the sex that they are. Transmen are welcome in women's spaces and transwomen are welcome to be with the other men.

Ooooh I dunno, perhaps the years of being told to die in grease fires, being told to enjoy our erasure, being told that we shouldn’t centre actual women on IWD, of having our meetings surrounded by screaming TRA threatening violence, of ppl being doxxed, hounded, of women having their employers contacted by TRA to try and get them sacked for expressing GC views, of having a fucking man running a raoe crisis centre who told women to reframe our trauma

some might just say our reserves of goodwill ran dry very long ago. I’ve spent energy and money fighting for women’s rights. I don’t have time and energy left to spare to fight other people’s battles!

Does letting men get their own way no matter what because we might hurt their feelings solve the problem of violence against women and children then?

I don't define my feminist or feminism this way. Women who fought for the vote and equal pay didn't fight for a world where prejudice against fellow men and women defined us.

We do. We see the tiny number of males who attack women and girls, regardless of their gender identity as the criminal fringe. One of the reasons we have single sex spaces is to protect women and girls from these male predators. In the same way that safe males who are not trans identifying are excluded from female only spaces, safe transwomen are excluded from female only spaces. It's done to protect women from the minority of predatory males.

no they wouldn’t

no need to exaggerate

They actually don't use women's spaces so it's not been an issue tbh.

I actually think it will make things easier in the long run - spaces will be single sex or "inclusive" and everyone will be clearer whether trans people are welcome.

They are cringing right now

Yep, women are nine times more likely to be assaulted in unisex facilities. I wonder why?

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/women/sexual-assault-unisex-changing-rooms-sunday-times-women-risk-a8519086.html

This ⬆️

I think most of the aggression has come from people threatening women with burning , beheading , rape and other violence, disrupting peaceful meetings with intimidation and verbal abuse, not to mention hounding women from lawful employment for stating legal truths. Do you need reminding where those threats and that aggression came from. Hint , not from feminists.

I appreciate that your trans friends just want to live their lives, so do women, without the threat of violence and intrusion into their legally defined single sex spaces.

Perfectly put

Oh no!! How will we possibly go on knowing gen z are cringing???

oh no wait! We actually don’t give a fuck