Is it possible to be a feminist and also have some empathy for transgender people today?

[HoundOfTheBasketballs]

I’m not going to pretend I’m an expert here but everything feels incredibly polarised. Like, either you’re with us or you’re against us.
Is there no middle ground in this debate?
I am, and always have been a feminist, but I know and like people who are trans and non-binary. I can’t be the only person feeling confused and conflicted, can I?

This.

So why don't we see this as the criminal fringe? Just as we would any other.

Womens spaces are for women, not men. However nice they are or what they feel about themselves.
Pointing out that transwomen are not women isn't denighing their existence it's stating a legal and biological fact.
Transwomen now need to do what women did and fight for their own spaces if they don't want to be in the men's. There was a time when women would have helped them in that fight, but when we offered, they called us evil bigots and worse, all whilst pushing us out of the spaces and groups that we created. So now they're in a mess of their own making and quite frankly no-ones going to dig them out of it nor are they likely to find many people who care about men being made to use the men's facilities instead of the women's

But what does "deny they exist" really mean. They clearly exist, we can see and interact with them.

I know that Muslims exist. I don't believe in Allah or any God, but I know they do and I understand they operate in a different way than I do because of that belief, and I do not want them to be discriminated against for that belief.

I feel exactly the same way about trans people. I believe they believe they can change sex. I think they're wrong, the same way I think the Muslims are wrong about Allah.

And I also think that women need single sex spaces to feel safe. And the law is now clear on that.

I think the judge said that this wasn't a win for either 'side' and that trans people are (and should be) still protected from discrimination. I agree with this, and so
I don't really understand why anyone would feel conflicted about this, or that this is a 'bad' day for trans people. It's just a good day for biological women's rights.

You forgot about women.

If some males are not safe in men's toilets, why would women be safe with males in their toilets?

Yes, they are part of the criminal fringe of men, the sex responsible for 98% of sexual crimes.

The entire of generation z would despair at this

Yeah I feel sorry for people who've swallowed Stonewall's lies. The solution to that is in Stonewall's hands.

And this is what I mean. You no more deserve to be called a transphobic bitch than a transwoman deserves to be called a chick with a dick.

There have been no instances of TW being attacked in a men’s toilets

mens issues are theirs to solve. Perhaps stonewall can invest money in educating men to be kind

Being supportive of trans rights is not anti feminist. You can be both

@Bluebootsgreenbootsyoy have expressed very well what I also see and think about the young trans people I meet.

That last post of mine was to @Springeere Katie Dolatowski and other predatory “trans women”

Unisex toilets are the answer. Plus cubicals and no more urinals. Young men don't like them anyway

🤷‍♀️

@Diverze You love your child and therefore you will go out of your way to ease their way in the world.

You cannot demand that others do the same.

If your child enters the a wrong single sex service area, then they may be challenged - how would they react to that?

If they are likely to get distressed then you may need to explain to them the importance of what has been confirmed in law today - that their sex is what defines the service they can use, no matter how they identify.

Feminists have advocated for a middle ground all along. But we get called bigots and transphobes when we do that, and accused of wanting to erase trans people.

Theee was a transwoman in my rape support group and anyone who objected was told to leave. How can that be fair?

Name-calling is obviously wrong but have you seen what transwomen say about women? https://terfisaslur.com/ You s very enlightening on that score. Just the most vile abuse.

Quite! I say again OP, pop over to trans Reddit, suggest third spaces and see how far you get….

Add to that the common revulsion and disgust that a lot of teenage girls feel about their bodies. It’s especially difficult if you (like I did) develop massive breasts when you were 14 and had never kissed a boy but were now being ogled and leered at by grown men. If binders and surgery had been available to me, I’d have done it. Thank goodness it wasn’t a thing.

Yes. I totally agree. Women should be safe to get changed and work out without being in fear of men invading their space. And transgender rights shouldn’t exist at the expense of women’s safety. But why can’t women support transwomen at the same time? Why can’t I say, “I want to be safe, but I want you to be happy and safe too. How can we work towards that together?”

It's really unsound to claim that trans people are mostly some variant of ASD and comorbidity is a concept currently subject to wide scepticism in ASD diagnostics

We do. But it’s the male criminal fringe. Males commit 98 percwnt of sex crimes against women which is why we keep all of them out. It’s not trans-specific, it’s male specific.

oh and women are nine times more likely to be assaulted in mixed sex facilities too. Because men.

Perhaps you should ask “trans women” the same? Why is it my job?