Page 39 | Is it possible to be a feminist and also have some empathy for transgender people today?

HoundOfTheBasketballs · 2025-04-16T19:44:48+00:00

I’m not going to pretend I’m an expert here but everything feels incredibly polarised. Like, either you’re with us or you’re against us. Is there no middle ground in this debate? I am, and always have been a feminist, but I know and like people who are trans and non-binary. I can’t be the only person feeling confused and conflicted, can I?

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 18/04/2025 23:54

LibbysBodiceButtons · 18/04/2025 23:46

Refuge has said they are still committed to helping trans men. Rape centres yes if they have been raped, why not. I don't know how prisons are going to deal with it but they have vulnerable prisoner units so I guess they will be used.

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No one is saying that a trans person who has been raped should be denied therapy, just that women who have been raped should be able to access female only groups with female only staff if that's what they want. I'm Sarah is taking her local rape centre to court because they have a male group, a trans group and an identify as female group. Sarah asked for an additional women only group (so taking nothing from the range of three options available to trans women) but was told no. Women who have been the victim of male violence (despite what more recent crime stats may say women cannot commit raped in UK law as it is a crime that requires a penis) should be able.to access female only spaces if they want to.

theilltemperedqueenofspacetime · 18/04/2025 23:55

@LibbysBodiceButtons

Orthodox Jewish women (who are forbidden by their religion to share intimate spaces with men) have had their freedom to participate in public life significantly curtailed ever since it became the thing to allow men into pools, changing rooms, toilets etc. How dare you use them as means to your argument?

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 00:18

selffellatingouroborosofhate · 18/04/2025 23:47

Yawn. Another "be kind" shill.

We tried being kind and it ended badly for us. We tried having sympathy and it ended badly for us. Go and tell men to "be kind" to TW who need to use male spaces, because it's men who pose the risk of violence to TW. Women aren't responsible for solving men's problems.

It's not women who post photos of themselves with guns, baseball bats, and knives captioned "point of view: you're a TERF in my mentions" on TwiX. The violence, threats, and piss protests have all been from trans people and their allies.

I'm not a 'shill' and I'd rather be kind than hateful.And I don't believe women have to solve men's issues. That's not the point. It's pointless posting anything on here, you're all rabid! 😁

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/04/2025 00:22

Calling women who are campaigning for women’s rights “rabid” is soooo “kind”, you guys just set such a high bar! I wish I could be as kind and progressive as you!

Gattopardo · 19/04/2025 00:23

Rabid!

See also Hysterical and other gendered slurs.

murasaki · 19/04/2025 00:24

Have we been called shrill yet?

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 19/04/2025 00:27

murasaki · 19/04/2025 00:24

Have we been called shrill yet?

Hopefully it's up next because I have it on my bingo card and I want to go to bed.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 19/04/2025 00:28

Ahh, @LibbysBodiceButtonssays that ‘she believes’ trans people don’t want to hurt women.
So, none of us need to worry then! 🙄

You can only consent for yourself.

ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews · 19/04/2025 00:33

GetDressedYouMerryGentlemen · 19/04/2025 00:27

Hopefully it's up next because I have it on my bingo card and I want to go to bed.

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Well, on Twitter, Helen Webberley complained that:

Message to the little ladies out there nervously clutching their handbags, fumbling for their pearl necklaces, waiting for the Supreme Court to decide whether their precious space might be invaded:

So, she does know what ridiculous stereotypes she can childishly lob about.
Daft (but fanatical, and dangerous) mare.

Alucard55 · 19/04/2025 00:34

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 00:18

I'm not a 'shill' and I'd rather be kind than hateful.And I don't believe women have to solve men's issues. That's not the point. It's pointless posting anything on here, you're all rabid! 😁

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Can I ask you is there any circumstance or space that is designed for women where you think men who identify as not men should not be accepted into?

Christwosheds · 19/04/2025 00:42

AncientAndModern1 · 16/04/2025 21:55

I couldn’t really care less about men’s rights. I certainly don’t care about the rights of fetishists who get a hard on from wearing a skirt and like taking pictures of their penis in the ladies. I do care about vulnerable children whose bodies are stunted and mutilated forever by ‘trans healthcare’ that stops them growing up, cuts off healthy body parts and sterilises them. But mostly I care about the rights of women and girls to be safe and legally permitted to gather in single sex spaces.

This is how I feel too.

GCAcademic · 19/04/2025 00:49

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 00:18

I'm not a 'shill' and I'd rather be kind than hateful.And I don't believe women have to solve men's issues. That's not the point. It's pointless posting anything on here, you're all rabid! 😁

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Do you believe in being kind to women, at all? Or is your kindness just reserved for male people?

Weeeeegoagain · 19/04/2025 00:53

GenderlessVoid · 18/04/2025 23:13

It really depends on the person. In the 90s and aughts, I used sie and hir/hem (precursor to zie/zir) bc I thought gender was a BS concept that reinforced the patriarchy. Using she/her seemed sexist, like it was necessary that pp use gendered pronouns to recognize my secondary status as a women, thereby reinforcing the sexist hierarchy. Some pp used them with me, others did not. C'est la vie.

If someone used them, it seemed like a small way to spread the idea that gender is unimportant and often a way to identify pp with similar views. I know a few pp who still use zie/zir for that reason but even more who use it to be genderspecials who want to show alliance with trans pp.

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What does this even mean? And what bearing does it have on being male or female, as in biological sex?

Gattopardo · 19/04/2025 00:57

@ChimpanzeeThatMonkeyNews wow, she really hates women. Not on twitter any more but that prose is just grim. Yuck.

GenderlessVoid · 19/04/2025 01:09

I was replying to this

"You would think that non binary would be the way to go. But non-binary is as part of the + part of LBGT+ as any of the other identities. They take the identity as part of the edgy, cool part of being in the rainbow family, not because they reject gender."

I'm saying that's not true for everyone who is non binary. Some do reject gender, though many do not.

DrPrunesqualer · 19/04/2025 01:09

LibbysBodiceButtons · 18/04/2025 21:49

Does this mean if a trans person has a GRC they can use the single sex facilities of their chosen sex, i.e. a trans woman can still use female facilities if they have a GRC?

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No!

DrPrunesqualer · 19/04/2025 01:12

Alucard55 · 19/04/2025 00:34

Can I ask you is there any circumstance or space that is designed for women where you think men who identify as not men should not be accepted into?

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What are they identifying as …..cats ? Because I’m OK with cats in the changing rooms
Not lions or tigers though….I draw the line at predators

Codlingmoths · 19/04/2025 01:34

LibbysBodiceButtons · 18/04/2025 22:51

I'm not trans, I'm a woman and always have been by the way. I was just thinking about the men and women who have had surgery and therefore don't have a penis if previously male etc.

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The question asked of you was not are you trans, it was what do you consider fully transitioned? Someone asked it when you expressed shock that ‘fully transitioned’ men should use the men’s toilets. I think it was shortly before you said that telling a male person to use the male bathrooms was just like gassing millions of men women and children to death because they are Jewish. Yes, they are just the same. One person gets to have a job and a normal life and friends and a home with its own bedroom and bathroom and freedom and they have to pee in male bathrooms. The other saw their family beaten and starved and held their child’s hand as they were gassed to death along with millions of others including their whole community

Alucard55 · 19/04/2025 01:47

DrPrunesqualer · 19/04/2025 01:12

What are they identifying as …..cats ? Because I’m OK with cats in the changing rooms
Not lions or tigers though….I draw the line at predators

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I'm fine with dogs personally. In regards to the men who identify as not men, I don't really care what they call themselves, how they present or even if they have a piece of paper. I just do not want them in women's single sex spaces.

And as the PP kept stating that they were happy for men to use women's single sex spaces I'm curious to how far they would extend this.

All over the mainstream media there are men saying they are terrified, that their existence is being denied and that they pose no harm to women by using female bathrooms. I wish someone would ask them if they believe that men should be accepted into all female only spaces as that's the logical conclusion if we say yes that's fine men can use women's toilets as they only want to pee and pose no harm.

I doubt the PP will offer a proper answer but I'm talking about women's rape crisis centres and groups, women's refuges, women's prisons. To be clear I'm not suggesting men who identify as not men should not have access to these services but I am saying that this should not be alongside vulnerable and scared women.

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 01:54

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/04/2025 00:22

Calling women who are campaigning for women’s rights “rabid” is soooo “kind”, you guys just set such a high bar! I wish I could be as kind and progressive as you!

I was joking!! Jeez. Hence the 😁

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 01:58

GCAcademic · 19/04/2025 00:49

Do you believe in being kind to women, at all? Or is your kindness just reserved for male people?

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I'm a lesbian so I'd prefer to be kind to men and women 😊

DrPrunesqualer · 19/04/2025 02:03

Alucard55 · 19/04/2025 01:47

I'm fine with dogs personally. In regards to the men who identify as not men, I don't really care what they call themselves, how they present or even if they have a piece of paper. I just do not want them in women's single sex spaces.

And as the PP kept stating that they were happy for men to use women's single sex spaces I'm curious to how far they would extend this.

All over the mainstream media there are men saying they are terrified, that their existence is being denied and that they pose no harm to women by using female bathrooms. I wish someone would ask them if they believe that men should be accepted into all female only spaces as that's the logical conclusion if we say yes that's fine men can use women's toilets as they only want to pee and pose no harm.

I doubt the PP will offer a proper answer but I'm talking about women's rape crisis centres and groups, women's refuges, women's prisons. To be clear I'm not suggesting men who identify as not men should not have access to these services but I am saying that this should not be alongside vulnerable and scared women.

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Everyone born male should not be in women only spaces

I don’t do social media other than MNet so I’m aghast that men are saying that their existence is being denied but you know women have had this for most of their lives and for centuries so maybe they’ll get what a tiny bit of being a woman feels like. So hurrah!

that was one huge sentence but it’s late and I can’t think straight to work out where to put the full stop 🤣

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 02:04

Codlingmoths · 19/04/2025 01:34

The question asked of you was not are you trans, it was what do you consider fully transitioned? Someone asked it when you expressed shock that ‘fully transitioned’ men should use the men’s toilets. I think it was shortly before you said that telling a male person to use the male bathrooms was just like gassing millions of men women and children to death because they are Jewish. Yes, they are just the same. One person gets to have a job and a normal life and friends and a home with its own bedroom and bathroom and freedom and they have to pee in male bathrooms. The other saw their family beaten and starved and held their child’s hand as they were gassed to death along with millions of others including their whole community

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I was not comparing it to be gassed. I was just thinking of one of many marginalised groups and it's a very slippery slope when you start to single out a group of people trying to live their life and then making them actually fear for their lives. Trans people are the most marginalised and attacked, often physically and fatally out there at the moment.

DrPrunesqualer · 19/04/2025 02:07

LibbysBodiceButtons · 19/04/2025 01:58

I'm a lesbian so I'd prefer to be kind to men and women 😊

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Maybe not calling people rabid would be a good place to start.
Then we’d get it

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/04/2025 02:11

Goodness, multiple threads tonight where different people are refusing to explain the mysterious concept of “transitioning” and why it should trump women’s boundaries around men.