Division of State and Church in respect to gender

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Read full chapter is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I am not interested in your answer to the question of whether you believe the above two passages support or do not support being non-binary or transgender. People will always disagree over how to interpret religious texts.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.The above two passages are just two examples from Christian religious texts that can be interpreted as non-binary and transgender identities being expressions of religious/ spiritual teachings.

My question therefore is:

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

The Gospel of Robbie?

Discovered in 1997, but there is some dispute about the original author.

Amen, Sister Kitty

The Book of Wisdom is canonical scripture for the Western, Eastern, and Orthodox catholic churches.

The 'Gospel of Thomas' is a few scraps of ancient writing discovered less than a century ago.

The idea that any early writings are 'proto-Gnostic' is debated but not universally accepted. Few if any modern scriptural scholars would describe St John's Gospel as proto-Gnostic, never mind Gnostic.

Were I a cat, I think I would favour Buddhism. A good proportion of the statues have convenient laps, and there's often some butter lying around.

The Equality Act 2010's definition of a woman as "a female of any age" refers to sex, not gender. So in the UK, this question is irrelevant.

Trump's Executive Orders that talk about the large and small gametes reflect the objective fact that no one who ejaculates sperm can release eggs, and vice-versa. These EOs apply only to living people. The Galatians passage you quote refers to Heaven, the putative residence of the righteous faithful after death. Trump's EOs reflecting material reality for the living don't interfere with people's right to believe whatever they like about what happens after death.

The Thomas passage you quote refers to treating people equally and fairly. The babies are too young to be prejudiced against others and Jesus is telling people to "be more baby" by being less prejudiced. Sex segregation in sports, prisons, changing rooms, dormitories, and loos isn't based on prejudice but on a fact-based understanding that men commit far more violent and sexual offending than women and women are vulnerable to a consequence of sexual assault that men aren't: pregnancy. In this circumstance, treating people fairly means separating the sexes under some limited circumstances to enable women to work, socialise, and meet their obligations within society without being put at preventable risk of male violence and forced pregnancy. Trump's EOs, rooted in the material reality of sex, don't conflict with Thomas, if anything they support Thomas. For the female not to be female, but be simply human, in the boardroom, she has to have a female-only bathroom, otherwise she cannot safely attend the workplace.

Being housed in the men's prison and made to try out for the men's team if he wants to compete in sport isn't stopping someone male from holding a belief, religious or otherwise, that they are non-binary or trans. It's stopping them from denying women their civil rights and forcing others to submit to that belief.

Ooh! I need to go and play some Alabama 3!

Apart from the vegetarianism - or is it veganism?

But any sensible cat would only follow the rules that suited them.

"When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

Knees bent, arms stretched, ra, ra, ra

It reminds me of a Picasso or Dali painting where all the bits are the wrong size / shape or in the wrong place.

I'm not usually a fan of this song. I think it's generally overrated. But we sang it at Greenbelt (a Christian music and arts festival in case you haven't heard of it) a couple of years ago and it made me cry.

No rules about vegans or vegetarianism in Buddhism. Most of the 'rules' were made for monastics, and they begged for food and took what they were given.

I mean, people can still argue at length on this point, inevitably. :D

Not sure if other Catholics include the Apocrypha but Rome does (and theology students read them, from whatever denomination). Protestant churches ditched the lot at least for the laity. As to the Nicene creed, yes it says 'holy catholic and apostolic church'. Discussed this a couple of weeks ago and had various suggestions as to its meaning, from showing that the CofE (which uses the Nicene creed) is saying that it is a reformed catholic church to the meaning of 'catholic' as inclusive and wide-ranging, allowing divergence from practice (though not doctrine) which is certainly applicable to the CofE, where priests in berettas rub shoulders with ministers who won't even have an altar table for the sacrament. For myself I see the term 'catholic' as both indicating reform and also a church which accepts a wide range of worship.

A metaphor for transgenderism

Parklife

I'm converted @ThisPinkWyvern Where do I sign up to get the stickers and flags?

when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner,

In, out, in out, shake it all about…

Do people still do the Hokey Cokey?

There are various views on this point, depending on sect and region (Tibetan Buddhism, for example, wouldn't have got very far if it cut out any food groups - at that altitude you eat anything you can). And as Arabella says, most swcts agree alms should be accepted gracefully whatever they consist of.

So cats would be fine under the 'donated food' rule if they were believers. But they wouldn't follow Buddhism - any self respecting cat believes only in itself. It would be a matter of choosing the best place of worship to hang out, rather than picking an actual faith.

So a monk who spends hours sitting down and can't throw you out is the best sort of monk:

I didn’t know that, thanks @NoBinturongsHereMate.

I do have suspicions that Kitty’s trying to establish a cult sometimes. If I ever find her preaching from the balcony while all the local cats are gathered below, I’ll know for sure.

NextRinny · Today 12:58

This is the way the thread ends,
Not with a bang but a whimper.

"From the burger joint round the corner,
Where the meals - thank Christ! - are skimpy,
Hot dogs direct from Crufts, done in diesel oil,
That's how your world could end,
Not with a bang, but Wimpy!"

You turn around
That is what it’s all about.

Right band, wrong track. You're thinking of the "girls who want boys who like boys who do girls who do boys like they're girls who do girls like they're boys".

Alas the OP has abandoned us. We have sinned in some way. We embraced the scripture of John Thomas. We recited the verses of the Songs of the Nineties and performed the Hokey Cokey incantation. We worshipped Kitty's cat. What more does the Goddess @ThisPinkWyvern want from us?

Anyone got a male virgin to sacrifice?

Anyone got a male virgin to sacrifice?

I'm not nipping over to any incel forums to find one. I don't think I'd ever get clean again afterwards.