Division of State and Church in respect to gender

[ThisPinkWyvern]

Galatians 3:28

28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Read full chapter is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Gospel of Thomas, Saying 22

22. Jesus saw some babies nursing. He said to his disciples, "These nursing babies are like those who enter the (Father's) kingdom."
They said to him, "Then shall we enter the (Father's) kingdom as babies?"
Jesus said to them, "When you make the two into one, and when you make the inner like the outer and the outer like the inner, and the upper like the lower, and when you make male and female into a single one, so that the male will not be male nor the female be female, when you make eyes in place of an eye, a hand in place of a hand, a foot in place of a foot, an image in place of an image, then you will enter [the kingdom]."

I am not interested in your answer to the question of whether you believe the above two passages support or do not support being non-binary or transgender. People will always disagree over how to interpret religious texts.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.The above two passages are just two examples from Christian religious texts that can be interpreted as non-binary and transgender identities being expressions of religious/ spiritual teachings.

My question therefore is:

Does defining gender as having to be either male or female under law therefore violate the separation of church and state?

What a nutty post. Hahahaha

If¹ there is complete separation of church and state, then the state must make law in isolation from religious teachings. The existence of a contradiction between the 2 would support rather than undermine the premise that the 2 are separate.

¹ That 'if' can be left hanging for the purposes of this statement.

Thanks @Nooa ! Saved me from having to go find that passage. It’s pretty clear, as is the quotation from Genesis @Grammarnut posted.

Many non-binary and transgender individuals do however consider how they identify their gender , to be an expression of their religious/ spiritual beliefs.

I actually agree with this, which is why I don't understand why the rest of us are being forced to pretend we share those beliefs in a supposedly secular 21st century society.

Pass thanks

Would anyone like to see a photo of my rescue cat?

Having not been spayed until the age of 5 & had fuck knows how many litters in that time, I think she’s quite clear on the differences between the sexes.

The only reference to cats in the Bible is in Baruch (6:21) another book the protestants don't regard as canonical. Comparing temple idols to the true, non-physical YHWH God, it observes that: bats, swallows, birds of every kind perch on their bodies and heads, and so do cats.

I can quite see that cats would, and would probably assume they were the ones being worshipped.

Not until there are tambourines.

I might also prefer a demon casting out with added talk of angels. If it’s not too much trouble.

But - Jesus saying 'get out demons' is okay, but when the angel got stuck in with Tobias there was that burning fish guts stuff, which sounds, and smelt, nasty. Flying away to Egypt was understandable in the circs. And I'm not sure whether we're meant to understand demons.

I just repented, it was easier and it always wears off.

The stories in the Apocrypha were always my favourite bits of the Bible. But it could have done with more cats.

therefore violate the separation of church and state?

Are you American? Church and State are very much not separate in the UK. Church of England Bishops sit in the House of Lords. The head of the Church of England is also the head of state. Our schools are in law at least, nearly all Christian schools.

But I really can't see how that's relevant to the way we organise our multi-faith society at a legal level.

Concise and to the point.

I could not connect the sets of quotations from ancient texts with the church and state thing it left me with an extra permanent wrinkle on my brow, which is a big TUT from me.

However i had forgotten about “the gospel of Thomas”. Which i had come across somewhere in my (distant) past readings of biblical literature analysis, from a secular perspective.

Thomas, books it is thought in some theological circles, more recordings of what Jesus might actually have said, as opposed to the gospels which documented parts of his life.

He also seems to assert that Jesus, (AKA god) said heaven is within in us as is God.

And that there is no other place than earth Which we shall reside.

obviously been on google for several hours….

Do i sound clever now?????

We are very much a Christian country in many significant ways, whether folks like it or not. We keep an air of stiff upper lip about it because full on religious zealotry is not the British way. But the majority of sane individuals know that humans can’t change sex.

HTH

You don't have to Christian, or religious, or even human (as @EmpressaurusKitty's splendid cat demonstrated) to know neither humans nor any other mammals can change sex.

Roman Catholics. There are other Catholic Churches, plus of course the Nicene creed declares there is one holy, catholic and apostolic church.

You OK, hun?

?????

Oh life is bigger
It's bigger than you
And you are not me

@Grammarnut

"Jesus called the Christ is not talking about gender, he is saying that in the presence of God and the apprehension of God souls have no sex."

I know bugger all about the bible but this is how I would interpret the scripts quoted. I would assume that Jesus meant there is no discrimination of souls before god. We are all equal whether man, woman, Jew or gentile. Or maybe he meant that sex, heritage and colour etc cease to exist in the afterlife where we are all become one entity.

Wisdom is canonical for the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox churches as well the Roman Catholic church, so 'Catholic' was the right word. It's only the protestant churches that rejected it (in the last half millennium).

The Vatican has rejected the Gospel of Thomas as Gnosticism and not written by Thomas and therefore fraud. Thomas himself was apparently busy converting India after Jesus’ death.

No probs.

It is considered gnostic and rejected by the Roman Catholic Church. The Nicene creed was written in repose to heresies such as Gnosticism, Marcionism, Docetism, and Arianism. Protestant churches are also part of the catholic (which means “universal”) Church. Gender is just another heresy,

And through it all she offers me protection
A lot of love and affection, whether I'm right or wrong