Non fatal strangulation and choking during sex

[ArabellaScott]

Grim read.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c62zwy0nex0o

19% claim to be able to orgasm from anal sex.

Which means 81% can’t.

It’s an incredibly painful thing to attempt with such a small chance of you even enjoying it. Not to mention the real risk of damage and physical harm that comes with anal sex.

The whole point is that as things like choking become normalised women and girls are not free to not enjoy them.

They're bullied to believe it's entirely normal and they're abnormal to not enjoy it.

Your little dig about women just laying back is simply pathetic. Having been a swinger for 20+ years I have a sex life that has never involved laying back and looking at the ceiling. No man has ever choked me nor would I allow it.

It's not remotely necessary to ask your partner to risk killing you have enjoyable sex.

Also if you're the one pushing it then there is also no true respect in a relationship where you ask them to risk 20+ years in prison for your brief pleasure.

It's utterly selfish in a relationship, and it's beyond selfish and irresponsible on a societal level to be joining in with the normalising of a downright dangerous act.

This is a really good analogy.

If everyone who took drugs started talking about how boring people’s lives are who don’t take drugs, etc without any real discussion about the potential and real harm, we’d be perfectly reasonable in calling it out.

Which is why it’s important to teach young girls the importance of their own pleasure. If their partner isn’t fully invested and prioritising her enjoyment, he isn’t doing it right.

And also repeatedly teaching young boys that porn isn't real and they should be invested in their partner's pleasure.

My elder son has said several times he's never been able to forget my saying to him to always remember that porn is about as factually accurate as a Spider-Man movie is.

I have tried it!

but that's what I mean. There's no specific pleasure to be had from it. It's all coupled with something else.

Girls are pressurised into it because there is a large amount of pleasure for men in it.

And the way it's portrayed porn is dangerous.

If you don’t like or want strangulation during sex tell him NO. It shouldn’t be an oh well then habit ,a thing you put up with
Have you told?

My instinct is - I need to talk to my daughters. When actually, boy mums need to talk to their sons.
This should not be another problem the girls deal with! Like anal sex suddenly being normal because boys see it in porn. Not normal. Not safe.
It's ALWAYS the girls whose bodies are at risk.
(I'm talking about heterosexual relationships only)

I had a sexual partner once (a man) who used to love me doing this to him!! Was a bit weird but he seemed to really get off on it. Often wonder if he still does as this was 18 years ago!

There is pleasure though, it’s not “just” combined with other things. The other things help you relax and heighten the pleasure. Especially if you aren’t used to it!

If you don’t get pleasure, that’s okay. But to deny the experience and voices of many other women who say they do is wrong.

I agree.

When the women on FWR were all looking at the outsourced sex education, I don't remember any of it portraying porn as dangerous, unrealistic, misogynistic.

We saw a lot of magazines talking about anal sex for girls, and about how you can stop if you don't like it, but really, just try using more lube first, etc.

fuck me, didn't Paperchase even have an advert, with a card saying something like if you really loved me you'd do anal??

It’s definitely not normal. Reason enough alone to leave a relationship!

‘It absolutely increases the overall pleasure for women tenfold’

It increases the pleasure for YOU not necessarily for all women. Just as you are free to express what you enjoy, other women are free to express what they don’t.

I was once told by a doctor friend of mine that anal sex is only relatively safe/enjoyable for women if the man has a small penis, that could explain an awful lot 🤔

I agree with you to a point; what goes on between consenting adults is and always up to them both.

But there's an issue with the rise of 'anti-shaming' - yes in the past there was a culture of shame around sex and sexuality that wasn't good for people's mental health. However as a society we have to be able to express worries about sexual practices that can harm. Ie anal sex - young women are much more likely to be physically harmed, such as ending up with faecal incontinence, due to the shape of their anatomy. I don't think this is 'shaming' and we shouldn't call it such. It's more than 'it's not for me but you crack on', when we have a generation of young people growing up with a model of risky sexual practices being normalised, before they've even had a chance to really explore the basics.

It's always been feminists looking out for children and young women in particular, and getting called prudes or now accused of 'shaming'.

I remember being surprised to read on here that it's apparently mainstream (for women of certain generations) to remove all pubic hair. It pales in comparison to normalisation of so-called 'breath play' and other fetishes.

I think with the current trajectory of Western culture, there's much more risk of feeling pressured into doing things you don't want to do for fear of being called a boring prude than there is of anyone feeling too 'kink-shamed' to do what they want in the bedroom (or posting it online for all to see).

The pendulum has swept far enough in one direction, imo. I'd like to see a return to more old-fashioned romance and vanilla sex, personally.

It's not really about denying other women, and it's not really necessary to have a conversation about how individual women feel, to be honest!

edited to add, I know it was me who asked! But I don't want to make people feel uncomfortable

It's more about the normalisation of a practice that is potentially dangerous for women but they're being pressurised into doing it anyway

As I said previously. Because this narrative is exactly the kind of ignorant bullshit I'm talking about.

Gen X women (who are mainly the ones you are talking to here) are NOT in fact from the Victorian generation. And believe me, the vast majority of us have done far more than "lay back and look at the ceiling" in our sex lives. We are from a sexually liberated generation, probably the first ever where sexual freedom was taken as the norm since our parents' 60s generation (in theirs, lots of people were still quite traditional, and those that weren't felt obligated to sleep with all sorts of ghastly people because they felt they were meant to and "but you've got the Pill now! What's the problem?")

It's just that we didn't have wall to wall online porn (we had porn obviously but it was in magazines and films that were hard to access, so not at a click of a button. So our sexuality was not 'created', dictated to or moulded by pornographers in general). I know you may find this incredibly hard to believe, but you don't actually require kink or porn to experience sexual pleasure or have a great sex life. I feel sad for you lot - I think you have missed out, frankly. I'm glad to have been in the generation I was. Sexual freedom with an emphasis on mutual pleasure AND way less desperation, it seems to me now, to have to "prove" that you were sexual or that you weren't so supposedly "vanilla" and "prudish| that you wouldn't naturally be into a light bit of near-fatal strangulation or anal. Or that god forbid, you could thoroughly enjoy sex without needing that.

Indeed. From an evolutionary sociology point of view, there's a reason why the vast majority of human societies had a taboo against anal sex until extremely recently: because the tissue of the anal wall is extremely delicate (unlike the strong, flexible, muscular walls of the vagina) and prone to tearing, risking injury and/or infection which may then spread throughout the community, endangering its survival.

There's plenty of societies past and present where homosexuality in specific social conditions was not taboo - the ancient Spartans are the example most people know about. The evidence we have of ancient Sparta (Pausanias, Plutarch) strongly suggests that homosexual lovers focussed mainly on intercrural sex.

Fast forward to the modern Anglosphere and there's plenty of studies and surveys from Kinsey onwards showing that gay male couples don't tend to prioritise anal penetration as their most common expression of intimacy.

Given all this, I wonder why modern society is so obsessed with anal penetration, and why it's commonly held to be so much more enjoyable for both sexes than any other form of intimacy, of which there are many, which are genuinely pleasurable and not painful or dangerous.

Porn - that's why.

I personally think that there are some sexual practices that should be shamed. There has been a push over the past few years to spread the idea that nothing is off limits provided there's consent, and that it's the shaming that's really the problem. At the end of this very slippery slope is the age of consent, serious assault, and death. That's where we are heading. So yes, I absolutely am going to say clearly and out loud that there are sexual practices that we should continue to push back against, even if a minority like them, and we should be pushing back way before we reach the very extremes.

"If you don't go along with violent porn that has killed people, you are having boring rubbish sex" is quite an illogical conclusion.

It's one of the least sex-positive views I can imagine.

But I assume this does typify what young women (and men) are being influenced to think. Really sad.

But my point wasn’t that all women should do it - it was to dispute the claim that NO woman enjoys any kind of anal play. This is why I said earlier I wasn’t talking explicitly about anal sex, but any kind of female pleasure derived from involving that orifice. Many women do get pleasure from this, be it anal play or full blown penetrative anal sex. This point should not be denied: the experiences of women should not be denied.

Actually, that's a good point.

There's often calls not to kink-shame or slut-shame.

But it is apparently fine to prude-shame or pearl-clutch-shame or vanilla-shame, or be outright ageist.

Well, 'intercrural' is my new word for the day.

MN is always an education.

Why did you let him do this to you the first time he did it?

Why do you continue to let him do this to you?

And again, 'consent' is presented as a tick box exercise.

A feminist analysis would consider wider societal and interpersonal dynamics, pressures, norms, assumptions, etc.

Consent needs to be fully informed. How many girls and women are fully informed on the risks involved in some of these sexual practises?

And freely given. There are many pressures exerted on girls and women - we all know about bodyshaming and peer pressure. Add in abuse, dv, coercion ... consent can be given in a moment when the wider relationship is itself not healthy.

She does not have to tolerate it.