Carla Denyer LBC this afternoon

[mrshoho]

Oh dear, what a car crash. Well done Tom. I listened to this on my drive home and if you get the chance to listen on catch-up you will see her thought process is mind numbing.

x.com/LBC/status/1899507512925094034?t=HOyow0KSiR4NndLy27_czQ&s=19

You would think that somebody on her PR team would have answers ready to go for these types questions.
The rabbit caught in the headlights response just makes her look ridiculous.

There is no possible answer which is not a sexist take on the correct way to "woman".

Her 15 years and pretend that the people around the male only see a female is about as far as she could stretch the "living as" trope

I haven’t heard the whole interview just the snippet on X so don’t know what else she said.

I agree that there is no answer to that question that isn’t nonsense. I can’t believe that people put themselves forward for these interviews and haven’t anticipated these questions and have a semblance of an answer.

If you wanted you can listen to the whole thing on lbc catch up, from memory the CD question we’re talking about is around 4.45 pm

Two words for you.

Jim Henson.

Does anyone else feel secondhand embarrassment when they witness something like this? It's why I could never be a politician.

Yes, I didn’t even really get pleasure from it, I was listening like 🫣

Watching it back has been golden though. That long silence is just utterly perfect.

The problem for politicans like Denyer is they cant allow themselves to acknowledge the GC sides points, therefore cannot begin argue against relevant issues . She needs to believe that its just bigots who dont embrace gender identity, so senses prejudice in the question. If she would acknowledge that some simply see sex rather than identity, she could perhaps develop a better argument.

Im guessing she believes that as a result of having gender, these men will do all they can to be women, even if the results are mixed. And because they are a minority, need to a accommodated. Its why she couldnt state what living as a woman is, because just about every transwoman shes met would struggle to meet more than one criteria.

In a way, i think the clever people struggle more to answer this question, because they know that its a belief and a legal fudge, not a reality. But wanting to be kind has left them exposed to looking silly.

This is fascinating. I think Robert Lifton coined the term "thought terminating cliche" in his book on Chinese brainwashing. But this is a geat example of the phenomenon in the wild. A cliche actually, visibly, terminating someone's ability to think. In real time.

Energy

Oi! I'm reading and breathing at the same time. Men are great at multitasking (provided the tasks are simple enough).

Yes it really is bizarre to see it in real time. This is a highly educated woman with a degree in mechanical engineering from Durham. She's comfortably experienced in debating and public speaking. Yet in this interview she was more or less struck dumb when pressed on an issue she is so passionate about and believes in unequivocally. I do wonder will people like Carla ever have that light bulb moment and think holy shit none of this madness makes any sense?

I'm not sure, I'll try watching it again. It's getting better every time. 😂

I felt the same 🤣🥰

She really is a bizarre, irritating weird woman isn't she. Well done Tom!

Nearly one million views now!

Oh dear, Carla - now that was embarrassing 😂 You can virtually see the mental gymnastics going on behind her eyes,

It’s really very simple. Living as a woman just means that a bloke has used his inherent male privilege to demand something that isn’t his. Plus ca change and all that.

hmmm
I think that in her (and others) minds
living as a=pretending to be a

so, if I was to live as a cat, I'd be eating vile stuff out of a tin, sleeping a lot, shitting in a litter tray and being disdainful of humans
I wouldn't actually be a cat, but I'd be living as a cat

I think that may be why she seems so perplexed, a TW is 'living as a woman' if they pretend to be a woman, by calling themself 'she' having a female name, dressing as they think a woman dresses etc. And they might carry on doing this for ...oooh fifteen years.

Great response from 'Dee' on Twix

This was great - how he comes across so mild and gentle whilst kindly asking the question she chokes on.
I'm trying to find the full interview to see if he responded to another comment she made. When he said does living as a woman mean wearing make up and a dress, she blustered, well that's a whole discussion about gender discourse and feminism.
Pardon?!
A quick search confirms that women wearing trousers hasn't been an issue since the 1880s - but now with trans it apparently is?
And I don't think women have ever been expected to wear make up before trans?
So empowering isn't it

This is the problem when people think they are the kind ones and other people are not - they don't feel the other side is owed any coherent explanation of their position, because that would somehow signal that 'unkind' people hold a valid viewpoint that is worthy of engaging with and ultimately, by engaging with their viewpoint it would tarnish their halo of kindness.

The trouble is in their moral certainty which blinds them. As @illinivich said "She needs to believe that its just bigots who dont embrace gender identity, so senses prejudice in the question"

We often use the phrase 'be kind' on here as some kind of insult, I'm sure I've been guilty of it. But ultimately most of us are on here because we are concerned about the impact of self-ID on vulnerable groups, so a form of kindness in itself. Why should they have the monopoly on kindness? It's just I feel it happens to be kinder not to lie about sex. It might be simplifying it but it feels like there's two basic positions:

Kinder to lie - the group of people who think it is kinder to lie about someone's sex so they can be 'affirmed' into whatever gender they imagine themselves to be.

Kinder not to lie - the group of people who think that ultimately lying creates more harm than good, especially to vulnerable groups such as children, women in prison, women with care needs and many others.

I wish the 'left' would engage with the alternative ways of being kind on this subject.

Ive been thinking about her reaction, and i wonder if shes purposefully stalling at this point because she doesnt want to get to the follow up questions of why men want to be women?

Im sure she can see a link between porn and attitudes to women in general but doesnt want this to be the public talking point around trans? Best keep it about what is trans, rather than what makes someone trans?

Everyone in parliament knows Jamie wallis wasn't caught in a white stuff cardi, dont they?

Going by the placement and sounds of her air clicks I dont think she was stalling. It sounded more like a she was physically stressing as she created a reply.

This is interesting though because that is all stuff a cat does, but the analogy for a man who thinks he's a woman would be 'eat food, use the toilet, sleep sometimes, have the odd conversation...' just human stuff. I think you're right that that's how they see it, but there is literally nothing that all women do the same, I'm not even the sort of woman that gets invited on girls nights out as I think someone else suggested, and I don't usually get mansplained to or talked over anymore (also what someone else suggested) as I make sure I only hang out with better skilled family and colleagues. The other way around a transman I knew just seemed to self consciously swear a lot as an attempt at what a man would probably do.

Does she ever reflect on how she isn't living as a woman?
When she puts trousers on, doesn't wear bright lipstick, avoids stilettos (most days for me) is this failing by her standards to act as a woman?
Thus, in not womaning (verb) as an action that she thinks takes place, she fails to be a woman (noun)?

I think they believe that women have it easier, that being a woman means looking pretty, being a bit dippy, and being taken care of - see Dylan Mulvaney. And that's the sort of day they have in mind.