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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

M Newman V Met Police Employment Tribunal

231 replies

Justme56 · 11/03/2025 16:42

Just wondering if anyone is following this on TT. It’s quite bizarre. The first witness attended the Trans Training session which I gather is where the discrimination stems (see attached statement) and has been questioned by AM the barrister for the police. AM is referencing the Wikipedia page of Kellie Jay Keen as evidence. Apparently wiki is not anti gender critical. 🤷🏻‍♀️. It seems to be covering a whole host of other stuff too - quite an eye opener.

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1899460916191597049?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10x1bvutNvphHgxMtTdBc7n8s4wA2i_1u/view

https://x.com/tribunaltweets/status/1899460916191597049?s=46&t=ZX_bLozRqm8etdGICMcAvA

OP posts:
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9
NoBinturongsHereMate · 14/03/2025 08:49

Saba Ali “ … When will these banshees stop?!”

Banshees, eh? Interesting choice.

I'm sure Ali only meant 'annoying screeching woman', in a charmingly sexist way. But banshees are not simply an expression of grief - they are also a warning. We will stop only when the danger has passed.

AlisonDonut · 14/03/2025 09:14

Melanice' Statement - Point number 26 - in 2015 evidence to a Parliamentary
enquiry, Dr James Barrett, President of the British Association of Gender Identity
Specialists referred to “a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force [to transition amongst sex offenders] was a desire to make
subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard.”

a - If this is the case, and it has been presented to Parliament no less, then why have the police and prisons completely ignored it?

b - there's a British Association of Gender Identity Specialists? Of course there is...

https://bagis.co.uk/bagis-council/

They even have a 'community scrutineer' post.

I searched for 'prison' on their pages and lo and behold, cannot find any references to this plethora of research.

I did find the statement to the Parliamentary Inquiry though - https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/57375/html/

The criminal justice system merits quite a bit of thinking about. On the one hand, many of us can remember patients who were charged with crimes, convicted and who ended up on the sex offenders register when we thought that the same thing wouldn’t have happened if they weren’t a trans person. A good example would be the transwoman charged with sexual assault after some brief fellatio with two males who were two and three years younger than her own age at the time (she was eighteen). They were visitors to the area and boasted to their cousin of their recent sexual encounter. The cousin, enlightening them as to the nature of the person they had had a sexual encounter with, caused them to feel embarrassed. One thing led to another and the patient was charged with sexual assault. Given that she was in a kneeling position at the time and that it would have been perfectly possible for either one of the males concerned to run away this seemed a bit implausible. In the end, she was convicted of being reckless as regard to age. This does place her on the sex offenders register, though. One suspects that she would never have been charged at all if she had been a born female.

The converse is the ever-increasing tide of referrals of patients in prison serving long or indeterminate sentences for serious sexual offences. These vastly outnumber the number of prisoners incarcerated for more ordinary, non-sexual, offences. It has been rather naïvely suggested that nobody would seek to pretend transsexual status in prison if this were not actually the case. There are, to those of us who actually interview the prisoners, in fact very many reasons why people might pretend this. These vary from the opportunity to have trips out of prison through to a desire for a transfer to the female estate (to the same prison as a co-defendant) through to the idea that a parole board will perceive somebody who is female as being less dangerous through to a [false] belief that hormone treatment will actually render one less dangerous through to wanting a special or protected status within the prison system and even (in one very well evidenced case that a highly concerned Prison Governor brought particularly to my attention) a plethora of prison intelligence information suggesting that the driving force was a desire to make subsequent sexual offending very much easier, females being generally perceived as low risk in this regard. I am sure that the Governor concerned would be happy to talk about this.

PronounssheRa · 14/03/2025 09:29

I know for individuals the win in these cases is important but the real value is the sunlight, getting this stuff on public record

I've now come to the view that all staff groups that cover DEI in the public sector need strict oversight if not removing completely.

I also think it would be wise for anyone involved in any of the organisations named checked in these proceedings to make an subject access request to the Met.

OverpricedCupcake · 14/03/2025 09:32

Appalonia · 14/03/2025 07:04

There's my latest Terfy purchase.

Bannedontherun · 14/03/2025 09:46

@AlisonDonut I am pretty sure Kathleen Stock referenced research in prisons regarding motives of trans sex offenders in her submissions, in response to the self ID consultation……………….

Bannedontherun · 14/03/2025 09:49

Just finished reading yesterday afternoon it is gob smacking that a TIM was the chair of the lesbian visibility panel, FFS

Kit the LGBTQ ++++++ lead saw no issue with that.

AlisonDonut · 14/03/2025 10:06

Bannedontherun · 14/03/2025 09:46

@AlisonDonut I am pretty sure Kathleen Stock referenced research in prisons regarding motives of trans sex offenders in her submissions, in response to the self ID consultation……………….

Yes but you'd think an organisation that made presentations in a parliamentary inquiry would reference the research they themselves referenced.

Bannedontherun · 14/03/2025 10:10

AlisonDonut · 14/03/2025 10:06

Yes but you'd think an organisation that made presentations in a parliamentary inquiry would reference the research they themselves referenced.

Yes i agree.

BeLemonNow · 14/03/2025 11:04

Eeek any 'biological male' advocating that they should be allowed to intimately search 'same perceived gender' which means not just woman but teenagers and young girls should be raising massive red flags not given an official platform. And incredibly some police forces are allowing this to happen if they have a GRC. Because the officer is 'legally' that gender. It is unbelievable.

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 11:09

GrumpyMenopausalWombWielder · 13/03/2025 22:14

Some sage advice for, well, anyone who needs it:

https://x.com/helensaxby11/status/1900221853756457458?s=46

“You should live your life as though a future will come when the reasons behind all your decisions will be open to cross-examination by Naomi Cunningham 😐”

🫡

My boss’ work version was similar - write every email as though it will be read out in court for you to explain. Sharpens your thinking. Shame most of these people weren’t given the same advice

AlisonDonut · 14/03/2025 11:15

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 11:09

My boss’ work version was similar - write every email as though it will be read out in court for you to explain. Sharpens your thinking. Shame most of these people weren’t given the same advice

In the last organisation I worked at, which was a long standing QUANGO for one particular industry, and one company who was legally obliged to hand over money to them, who didn't want to, was renouned for FOIing almost on a weekly basis any documents/emails/notes that mentioned their name.

I had written on my monitor WWXD which stood for What Would X [the company] Do...with anything you put in writing. So I never wrote their name down. Ever. I also never wrote anything down that could be used by them if they got wind of it. I still won't write it!

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 11:25

Sold!
I’ll be parading mine around as soon as it arrives.

How peculiar that to be “within the law” is worthy of suspicion and Investigation.

How about they get on with investigating the 2186 cases of rape or sexual assault carried out every day in the UK? I suppose that requires a bit more effort and dealing with nasty people. Easier to pick on law abiding women.

HornyHornersPinkyWinky · 14/03/2025 11:43

Was there a fundraiser for this case? Hopefully it will get more media coverage.

Appalonia · 14/03/2025 13:37

Is anyone reading TT today? It's beyond belief what is being said. The witness, KM ( I'm not sure who that is ), has described both the Suffragette flag and objecting to men in women's sports as transphobic! And they really cannot see how biased they are...

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 13:42

Appalonia · 14/03/2025 13:37

Is anyone reading TT today? It's beyond belief what is being said. The witness, KM ( I'm not sure who that is ), has described both the Suffragette flag and objecting to men in women's sports as transphobic! And they really cannot see how biased they are...

Thats a naive thing to say isn’t it - own goal stuff - because if that is true then it confirms that the reverse can also be true - that the wearing of rainbow lanyards and pronoun badges are offensive and harassing. Nil point for thinking that through

BettyBooper · 14/03/2025 13:43

Yes, bonkers. This bit...

'NC - but all GC say TiM should never compete (in women's sports) is that inher transphobic?
KM - umm yea, that is transphobic, it ignores realities of biology and gender aff healthcare.'

Eh??

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 13:43

I think these people assume women don’t have better things to do with their time?

x.com/SEENpoliceUK/status/1900165945026286022

Bannedontherun · 14/03/2025 13:58

KM is Kit Moore LGBTQIA++++++ lead at the Met clearly a total pillock

crumpet · 14/03/2025 14:13

It’s been a fascinating read this afternoon

Conxis · 14/03/2025 14:38

Bannedontherun · 14/03/2025 13:58

KM is Kit Moore LGBTQIA++++++ lead at the Met clearly a total pillock

Is this the witness they wanted to keep anonymous, I wonder????

NoBinturongsHereMate · 14/03/2025 14:44

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 13:43

I think these people assume women don’t have better things to do with their time?

x.com/SEENpoliceUK/status/1900165945026286022

A reminder for new readers that this is not the SEEN police account. It's a TRA pretending to be them. The real SEEN has complained repeatedly to TwiX, but they won't take it down.

KnottyAuty · 14/03/2025 15:26

NoBinturongsHereMate · 14/03/2025 14:44

A reminder for new readers that this is not the SEEN police account. It's a TRA pretending to be them. The real SEEN has complained repeatedly to TwiX, but they won't take it down.

Thanks - yes I should have said that.

ifIwerenotanandroid · 14/03/2025 15:31

There's a new witness. Why isn't NC questioning?

TheywontletmehavethenameIwant · 14/03/2025 15:31

'NC - but all GC say TiM should never compete (in women's sports) is that inher transphobic?
KM - umm yea, that is transphobic, it ignores realities of biology and gender aff healthcare.'

OMG, WTF, apart from being the TQties lead in the Met is she also an actual serving police officer?