Darling sister and pronouns

[CheeseFromTheNorth]

I know this has cropped up many times, the sense of sadness when a close family member or friend seems to have joined the #bekind brigade.
Had a forwarded email from my sister who lives in another country, from her work address and she used pronouns in her email signature.
I don't understand it. She is all for social justice (Aboriginal rights) across the board and proclaims to be a feminist.
I won't have a conversation about this with her until I see her in person. But when I do my line will be something along the lines of "I used to respect pronouns, as I saw no harm in it. But as I read more and more about male rapists wanting to be referred to as she/her and all institutions complying with it, I realised that something is very wrong.
Who do I decide "deserves" those pronouns? The trans identifying male that's kind but doesn't pass? The male rapist because he speaks of gender dysphoria, but forces his victim to use language such as "her penis" when testifying in court?
So I've drawn and line and will refer to a man who identifies as a woman by their name".

That's all I would say, it does share my opinion and shows the time line of thinking over the years. I have been overweight for many years (not anymore) so I don't think that me raising the sports issue rings true as a reason for me to be of the anti-pronoun brigade (of course no man should be in women's sports but sports is never something I've been interested in, so it rings false for me to be passionate about it), but I HAVE been sexually assaulted many times, so this is my hill.

Keeping discussions like this light and giving food for thought is the way to go imho.

But what has been troubling me is the "why"? Why has she not looked in to this? She too is a SA survivor and it was a particularly horrendous event that has very badly scarred her.

Sorry for the long post.

It is absolutely accurate to say people have been born with reproductive organs that do not match their genitalia. You do not get to decide which specific binary they fit into.

Even that sentence doesn't make any sense 🫠

Oh my god.

No, it isn't.

You are INCREDIBLY ill-informed. You clearly have very little knowledge of the scientific facts. And are talking to people who have FAR more knowledge of this than you.

Please stop embarrassing yourself.

YOU do not get decide what facts are. You are talking absolute shit.

But this is what we have come to expect from transactivism. I think you might be malfunctioning.

I'm not deciding anything. I'm saying, scientifically speaking every single person born is either male or female.

Even those with DSDs who have some differences in how they've developed.

Which part do you need clarifying? Reproductive organs being internal IE uterus, genitalia being external. There are around 40 different ways intersex can present.

It isn't called "intersex" any more. Hasn't been for YEARS now. The term is "DSD". And once again, you are talking fact-free shite.

What the hell is wrong with you?

If someone's sexual development has been oriented around the production of small gametes (ie they have testes and a penis) they are a man, regardless of any other differences in their development.

Not one single biological woman has ever been born with a penis. Ever.

So if that person, with a penis and/or testes DOES have a uterus and becomes pregnant… does that mean a man can become pregnant? Or do they then become a woman with a penis? You can’t have both or neither, apparently.

The couldn't produce eggs, so could not be pregnant and because they produce sperm - are men.

So not a woman with a penis, no 🙄

To be 100% clear, the condition you are talking about is extraordinarily rare. And this person would be a biological male, with a very complex DSD.

Yes, we can. Gait, voice, adam's apple, shoulder to hip ratio.

You're deluded if you think that any bloke who slips on a dress and some makeup is suddenly visually indistinguishable from a woman.

Actually, ovotesticular DSD (though yes, extremely rare) could absolutely result in a pregnancy despite penis and testicular tissue. So I guess, by your own logic, this would be a pregnant biological man.

And for the record also, there is zero correlation that I am aware of between those with DSDs and those who are 'trans'.

DSDs are only ever brought up as a (ridiculous) attempt to muddy the waters in this debate.

No it couldn't, there has been no know cases of production of an egg, much less a pregnancy.

One of my kids is trans so this has been an issue for debate at home.
Disabled toilets may be unisex but generally there is a toilet and washbasin in the same room and there is a lock on the door.
The traditional cubicles and then wash basins in a row outside is not ideal for many people especially when during menstruation.
Rather than arguing about trans women using ladies toilets maybe we should press for facilities which meet all women’s needs better ie single toilet and wash basin in a lockable space- possibly by taking space from the men’s toilets and converting into single person spaces

First, the issues are not exclusive of each other as many people with DSD are trans, or seen as trans when they - for example - start puberty and suddenly present as the gender they were not assigned at birth.

But the OP wasn’t about trans issues. At all. It was about pronouns. Pronouns being given are helpful for many people who are not in any way trans.

Women with naturally elevated testosterone levels suffer so much from this debate. Usually the first ones screamed out of “women only safe spaces” too, sadly. Or subject to traumatic “tests” / made to show their genitalia to prove they are real women.

There is no correlation between being 'trans' and having a DSD that I am aware of. Can you show any data on this.

And no woman's testosterone is anything like in a male range - so this is not relevant either.

If men stay out of women's spaces, that makes ALL women's safer within them. Men need to do the decent thing and stop violating women's boundaries.

Assuming that your DD isn't one of these new-fangled "girls" with a penis (because when gender identititarions say "woman" and "girl", they could mean anyone of either sex), I would suggest that for her own safety, she stops using the public loos where the junkies shoot up, because she will get attacked for her wallet and phone and junkies don't care if their victim is a child. My sister was mugged in a public loo as a teen and learned that lesson the hard way.

Assuming that your lesbian friends aren't amongst the new-fangled bepenised "lesbians", then I sympathise. Lesbophobia is extremely unpleasant and straight women aren't immune to it and will mockingly ask "is that a woman or a man?" when they know full well what the answer is.

This is why we need to push for safer and more private toilets and changing facilities .
I suggest you daughter uses the disabled toilets and gets a not all disabilities are visible lanyard

Paging @keeptoiletssafe here.

Single-occupant loos lack the safety gap at the bottom. That safety gap:

1. Allows you see if someone has collapsed.
2. Allows you to open the door over someone who has collapsed to get them out, because their body fits under the gap.
3. Allows you to see two pairs of feet and hear a struggle if an attack is under way.

These three things are safety-critical and are only partly mitigated by the red alarm cord found in disabled loos.

When someone has collapsed, time is of the essence. Someone who has stopped breathing has four minutes to start breathing again before brain cells start to die. Collapsed people are not discovered quickly in single-occupant loos.

Additionally, the safety gap allows someone to pass you loo roll if your cubicle has run out.

Right here in law: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2003/42/section/1

That's why Justine McNally was done for sexual assault by penetration, as was that Spanish transman from Scotland whose name escapes me.

That's a man.

Oh my goddess I am so sick of the "but DSDs" non-argument.

There's no such thing as "intersex". There are males with DSDs and females with DSDs.

Communal toilets with a bank of basins outside allow for quicker turnover. A block of roomy, single-sex, single-user lockable toilets with basins and top and bottom door gaps would be the dream, but that is not the current situation and would be very expensive to provide. Communal provision - whether it's a block of fully fitted out or basin-less cubicles - is a big reason why women's toilets are safe, though. If the loos you envisage were all unisex, they would need to be fully enclosed and that would instantly make them unsafe and unhygienic. Totally agree about potty parity, though - we need more loos per user than men do!

Out of interest, is your child female or male? Additional unisex toilets, where space permits, could be a solution for females with an identity who really don't want to use women's toilets/changing rooms, but unfortunately many males who claim to be women insist on trying to use the women's toilets even if there is unisex provision.

No, that's the job of doctors, who will examine carefully and consider all medical facts. Every child with ambiguous genitalia must be investigated and the nature of their DSD determined swiftly because they may have congenital adrenal hyperplasia the salt-wasting form of CAH kills.

Micropenis is not a clitoris and clitoromegaly is not a penis.