Lesbian mistaken for trans woman in woman's bathroom in Arizona

[Christinapple]

https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-arizona-walmart

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masculine-looking-cis-woman-confronted-by-cops-in-walmart-restroom-kalaya-morton-demands-justice-video/ar-AA1AdWpn

But I thought people "can always tell"?

It also led to the irony the only males in the bathroom were two male police officers who were notified by a store employee who mistakenly thought a male had entered the woman's toilets.

"In an alarming incident at a Tucson, Arizona Walmart, 19-year-old Kalaya Morton*, a Black cisgender lesbian, was confronted by two male sheriff’s deputies while using the women’s restroom, sparking outrage and a demand for accountability.
Morton, who identifies as masculine-presenting or a “stud,” recounted the humiliating encounter that occurred when a store employee erroneously assumed she was a transgender woman. The saga began innocuously enough: Morton had entered the restroom with her ex-girlfriend, who was kindly handing her a tampon— an act of friendship that, unfortunately, soon spiraled into something far more troubling. In an exclusive interview with The Advocate, Morton detailed her shock when the two deputies barged in, shining flashlights into the restroom stall.

“You have to get out of here. You have to come out. We need to talk to you.” Imagine trying to pee in peace, only to have the police storm in like it’s an episode of Cops: Restroom Edition.
“I’m still using the restroom. I’m sitting down, I’m peeing. What is the issue?,” Morton incredulously told the deputies as she sat there.
Now, while most people hope for a streamlined bathroom experience, Morton was treated more like a suspect than a bathroom user. The deputies apparently needed to crack the case of “Who Looks Like a Man in the Ladies’ Room,” a particularly absurd mystery, if you ask us."

Which evidence though?

They told you that did they? And you believed them? Do you take everything that people tell you at face value, because if you believe what they said I have some magic beans to sell you.

I've been mistaken for an actual biological man before ... your point is?

Mistakes happen. If it wasn't for some biological men insisting their gender feels trump the dignity and safety of biological women and girls then we wouldn't even have to police our spaces. Especially as we know predatory individuals WILL exploit thus to gain access

Why would she lie about having surgery? It was a general discussion about all the surgery she'd had and she was discussing all the progress which had been made in genital surgery. Would be an odd thing to make up 🤷🏻‍♀️

The evidence is upthread. The Monistry of Justice data shows that 70 per cent of trans-identified prisoners are incarcerated for sexual assault or violent crime, compared with about 19 per cent of the male prison population generally.

There's countless evidence fro the ONS, MoJ and more. It all shows that transwomen offenders statistically outweigh men in prison for sex offences. Given that the Prison Service counts men claiming to be women with a GRC as women in their crime stats, the real data is likely to be worse.

Google is your friend! Try googling ‘Offending rates of trans identified men V men’ you will find an absolute mine of information. TIM’s have male pattern offending rates, they commit crimes, including sexual crimes, at exactly the same rate as men. In some studies they offend at higher rates than other men for sexual crimes. Because they ARE men.

Speaking of numbers. How many additional female people in the UK do you consider acceptable to be harmed before you, personally, support all male people being excluded from female single sex provisions in the UK?

1 more female person (including children) being sexually abused, attacked or distressed? 5 more? 25?

How many female people are acceptable to be harmed by allowing male people to use single sex spaces because that male person has a philosophical belief that they are female?

We have had a person state 35. And one who stated that over 100 each year would be acceptable in their personal opinion.

You keep asking for numbers. What numbers would you consider to be enough for you to change your position.

Mine, by the way, is zero. What is your number?

Did you go and read the evidence I posted ?

Sorry if I missed that. Did it include links to legitimate sources?

1. It never happens...

Example given....

1. Well it is very rare..

More examples given

1. Are these examples from reliable sources?..

Official statistics given from multiple jurisdictions showing more than 50% of trans identifying male prisoners have committed serious sex offences against women and children 4 They are only pretending to be trans..........

And by the way I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just picking holes in the arguments put across as I want to fully understand the logic. Also I'm not saying I know all about all trans people just because I know a few. I'm just relaying my experience and trying to understand other people's.

I am genuinely interested to read any reports on this matter and what police are doing about it.

If you know a male who is using a female space like a female public toilet you know a male who has no respect for women who has chosen to put his wants above the needs of the female community in that area.

You said you are or were using spaces designed for people who needed adapted toilet spaces and apparently never questioned why a baby change unit was not installed into the male and female spaces.

You did not want extra people using a disabled space which you should not be using but fail to apply that same logic to the people that space was created for.

Why do you think women should loose their space to males who have their own space but have decided to use female spaces?

Yes, why do men lie to women, that’s a conundrum, and something that NEVER happens?! I know this man is lying because facts tell me it’s not true. People can’t change sex, men can’t surgically be given a functional vagina and women can’t surgically be given a functional penis.

https://committees.parliament.uk/writtenevidence/18973/pdf/

https://fairplayforwomen.com/transgender-male-criminality-sex-offences/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2024/12/31/almost-two-thirds-of-trans-women-prisoners-sex-offenders/

Edited to point out that none of this data will be completely accurate as shamefully the prison service and Ministry of Justice (along the ONS) are all "trans captured" so they've been identifying numerous male sex offenders as "real women" for years thus screwing up the accuracy of all their data.

Why does it only look at prison populations though? This is surely a skewed representation for many reasons?

You are being dismissive.

If a couple starts to live stream sex in the taxi, the taxi driver has the opportunity to park the taxi somewhere safe and leave, taking the keys. They have the opportunity to call the police. There are options available to them. They can enact their consent immediately.

A male masturbating in a closed cubicle while listening to the sounds of female people using the toilet is doing so without the knowledge of that person, hence it will always be non-consensual. They are performing a sex act in public which is illegal but because it is hidden it is unlikely to be caught by police and prosecuted.

The two situations are not analogous. Your comparison is flawed.

Please show us these statistics for all these trans women who are getting beaten up in men’s toilets.
I can’t see any difference between TIM’s and men because there are none, they are ALL men.

What is your proof that this sub-class of males are safer than any other grouping of males?

If you want to claim that a sub-class of males should be allowed to break the social contract around single sex spaces you need to provide proof that these males are as safe as or safer than females as a group.

Now you have evidence that a group of male people commit sex crimes at atleast the same rate as other all other male people, and you are trying to say this isn’t relevant because it refers to those serving prison sentences.

Tell us what are the reasons they are ‘skewed’?

Why does it only look at prison populations though? This is surely a skewed representation for many reasons?

Is this a new one for the bingo card? If it is can we name it the 334bu call......please,pretty please 🙏

Oh… good point. There are now male people who have been convicted of sex offences that have been given no prison sentences at all. Even though the conviction should carry a prison sentence.

So there are even more convicted male sex offenders than the prisoner statistics!

But at least we can assume that the prisoner statistics show the minimum of offending rates, can’t we.

The comparison is on the fact that the taxi porn is obviously not real and no one assumes it's real. So why are we assuming the toilet trans porn is not a set and in a real woman's toilet?

Most porn is a fake scenario/a set.

Ah - it's the wrong type of data for you to even consider? 😂

For any lurkers seriously engaged with this, as opposed to those batting away all inconvenient evidence as "not the right type of evidence" imagine how grim the data must be about all those avoiding going to prison / prosecution? Given everything we know about how hard it is to get successful prosecutions for VAWG and sex offending against children.....

ah so many bingo stages on this thread! Now we’re at the “I know a nice TW who would never lie” stage (I may have missed the “if you only knew some TW people” one)

oddly enough we don’t base laws on people’s nice friends

You don’t seem capable of going back a page or two to see a post with the statistics shown and the links.

It is almost like you don’t want those statistics to be shown. And you want to continue to say you have not seen them so therefore they don’t exist.

Really? When looking at offences, we shouldn't look at conviction statistics for those offences?
Even those that include males who identify as trans and those who don't so you can compare the two populations on the same terms?