Lesbian mistaken for trans woman in woman's bathroom in Arizona

[Christinapple]

https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-arizona-walmart

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masculine-looking-cis-woman-confronted-by-cops-in-walmart-restroom-kalaya-morton-demands-justice-video/ar-AA1AdWpn

But I thought people "can always tell"?

It also led to the irony the only males in the bathroom were two male police officers who were notified by a store employee who mistakenly thought a male had entered the woman's toilets.

"In an alarming incident at a Tucson, Arizona Walmart, 19-year-old Kalaya Morton*, a Black cisgender lesbian, was confronted by two male sheriff’s deputies while using the women’s restroom, sparking outrage and a demand for accountability.
Morton, who identifies as masculine-presenting or a “stud,” recounted the humiliating encounter that occurred when a store employee erroneously assumed she was a transgender woman. The saga began innocuously enough: Morton had entered the restroom with her ex-girlfriend, who was kindly handing her a tampon— an act of friendship that, unfortunately, soon spiraled into something far more troubling. In an exclusive interview with The Advocate, Morton detailed her shock when the two deputies barged in, shining flashlights into the restroom stall.

“You have to get out of here. You have to come out. We need to talk to you.” Imagine trying to pee in peace, only to have the police storm in like it’s an episode of Cops: Restroom Edition.
“I’m still using the restroom. I’m sitting down, I’m peeing. What is the issue?,” Morton incredulously told the deputies as she sat there.
Now, while most people hope for a streamlined bathroom experience, Morton was treated more like a suspect than a bathroom user. The deputies apparently needed to crack the case of “Who Looks Like a Man in the Ladies’ Room,” a particularly absurd mystery, if you ask us."

Nobody, has to be kind to anyone but to answer the question: Because, trans women are an at-risk minority and they need to use one toilet or another. If they look like a trans woman they may be at risk of being beaten up in the gents toilets by all the violent men that are out there. If they cannot use the ladies then they risk being arrested.

Obviously I’m not interested in the rights of people with bad intentions.

If you don’t see any difference at all between a trans woman and a man then there’s not really any point in arguing though.

I’m aware I’ve been quoted a lot more but I don’t have time to engage with everyone who I disagree with or who disagrees with me. sorry.

If you don’t see any difference at all between a trans woman and a man then there’s not really any point in arguing though.

Fine by me. There's nothing to argue.

Because, trans women are an at-risk minority

No they aren't.

Where I'm confused on this is if we're saying post op trans women who have vaginas are men and should use the men's are we then saying we feel safer with trans men with functioning penises using the women's toilets? Also surely trans women with vaginas are at risk of being attacked by entering the mens toilets?

Also surely trans women with vaginas are at risk of being attacked by entering the mens toilets?

1. They don't have vaginas
2. Men attacking other men isn't women's problem to solve.

Approx 80% of trans identified males don't have any surgery. Even if they did, it's still not a reason to allow them into womens toilets. They can use a gender neutral one. It's not just about safety, it's about privacy and dignity too. Even if a man has removed his male genitalia and had a neo vagina constructed he is still a man imo. Very few transmen have functioning penises- and women very rarely commit sex crimes. Transmen are still women and are no more of a danger to me than any other woman carrying a dildo in her bag.
Simply put, why can't they just use gender neutral spaces and stop insisting on using toilets of the opposite sex.

Edited for spelling

trans men with functioning penises

They don't have functioning penises.

Correct: There is no difference between a trans woman and a man. Both are male. Well
done.

Incorrect: Trans women are an at risk minority.

Post op trans women don’t have vaginas.

Trans men don’t have functioning penises.

There are no stats to back up these toilet attacks.

Sigh.

I've yet to see any evidence that men who call themselves women are at such a high risk of being beaten to a pulp by other men that they can't take the chance of setting foot in the men's bathrooms.

The trans activists have been feeding you tall stories.

Anyway the imagined plight of these men is not our responsibility. If this were actually true, and not just a sob story excuse to enter women's spaces without consent, then these men should've been addressing the root cause: the violent men problem. Not imposing this issue, and themselves, upon women and girls.

Damn too late to edit again.
Very few transmen have neo penis.
No transmen have functioning ones
Post bottom surgery op transwomen are still men.
Not 'imo' but fact.

Caitlyn Jenner is a fairly representative example of a man who calls himself a woman and has had surgery to turn his nether regions into a ballsack-flapped hole. He's built like a brick shithouse. You think he's going to get any hassle from other men when he uses the men's bathroom?

Transwomen are males, they are 50% of the population. They are not a 'minority', and they are not at risk. They are the safest group there is.

Females are at risk from all men and that includes transwomen.

What you are doing is lying and saying a fox is at risk from other foxes, so lets ask the hens to 'Be Kind' and accept the fox in their hen house.

NO! Females are vulnerable. Males, are not vulnerable at all. Transwomen are particularly the safest and most protected group out.

If you don’t see any difference at all between a trans woman and a man then there’s not really any point in arguing though.

97% of all transwomen retain their penis and testicles for life. A male with a cock and ballsack is not any type of woman. If you think that a fully intact male suddenly is different from other males because he wears a dress, you're too delusional to reason with.

Once again? Transwomen (by their own admission) are safe in the mens. However females are at risk from transwomen in our spaces. Us females are not HUMAN SHIELDS for an intact male in a dress. You've got a cheek to gaslight women, many of us rape survivors, into having a FULLY INTACT MALE in the ladies. His safety, is NOT OUR PROBLEM! He is a danger to us. And us rape survivors and DV victims don't want any fox (male), no matter how he 'identifies', in with us hens (females).

Got it? We females say NO! Respect our rights to safety, and our rights to dignity and privacy, and take your hateful misogyny and disrespect of females and survivors elsewhere.

Rape and various forms of sexual assault have hardened me, that's a fact. But it is neither 'hard-nosed' nor 'mean' to exclude men who identify as women from women's spaces.
Instead of telling us to keep them safe, do YOUR job as a fellow man and protect them in your male spaces.

Women do not have to accept extra risk in order to "be kind".

This thread is like going back in time about 5 years.

trans men with functioning penises

No such thing.

My thought too.

"Stefanodad"
·
"If you don’t see any difference at all between a man and a man then there’s not really any point in arguing though"

You got that right.

"Stefanodad"

"The position of not letting men into women's toilets feels very unkind to me."

I bet.

Lucy has a common misperception about risk. That because a group is small, they are low risk. It's easily countered: only a tiny proportion of the male population are plumbers called Bob. An even smaller proportion are convicted rapists called Bob. Your chance of being raped by someone called Bob is very small.

Does that mean Plumber Bob and even Convicted Rapist Bob should be allowed in the women's loos? Of course not. Plumber Bob is just as much risk as any other man, and Convicted Rapist Bob a much higher risk.

The stats on people who self-describe* as transwomen suggest that in terms of risk levels they lie somewhere between Plumber Bob and Convicted Rapist Bob. To work this out you need to be looking at the number who are sex offenders as a proportion of the size of the group itself.

Note*: An exercise for your personal definitions to decide whether someone so self-describing can be construed as lying.

Ok so we're saying they should use the disabled toilet on both sides? What happens when there isn't one? So we want trans men in our female toilets? Some people might freak out if they saw someone who looked like an actual man in the women's loos, like this story.

A friend of a friend who's a trans woman I met the other day told me she's having surgery soon to have a vagina and that trans men they've found a way to create functioning penises on trans men soon so that's why I wondered about this.

But I've met trans women who are quite petite and seen trans men who are really butch - they'd definitely pass for men!

I live in an area of London where there is a large LGBTQ community so I believe I'm personally likely to encounter this issue more than the average person here so trying to think through the issue that if we're saying trans women have to use the men's loos then trans men would be in the women... 🤔. I think I'd rather it was the other way round... Also as someone with a baby, the only neutral public loos near me are disabled and baby change - personally wouldn't want people who didn't have to to be using that one.

I don't find trans women at all intimidating and the whole point is that they identify as the opposite sex, not that they're using it as a covert way to creep on women.... Having listened to the gruelling surgeries some of them have undertaken it seems like an awfully long winded 'scheme' if that's what it is 😧.

Stefanodad is hilarious

Because we men are nasty and violent to other men that look feminine, you women just have to deal with them in your toilets so we don't have to.
And if that means you women have no right to dignity that is a small price for you to pay and as a man I don't care.
And if that means other nasty men can use the excuse of being a transwomen to abuse women in women's facilities, well that is tough luck and you women should know the difference between pervy men and nice men
As long as i am not inconvenienced by having feminine looking men in my facilities