Lesbian mistaken for trans woman in woman's bathroom in Arizona

[Christinapple]

https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-arizona-walmart

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/masculine-looking-cis-woman-confronted-by-cops-in-walmart-restroom-kalaya-morton-demands-justice-video/ar-AA1AdWpn

But I thought people "can always tell"?

It also led to the irony the only males in the bathroom were two male police officers who were notified by a store employee who mistakenly thought a male had entered the woman's toilets.

"In an alarming incident at a Tucson, Arizona Walmart, 19-year-old Kalaya Morton*, a Black cisgender lesbian, was confronted by two male sheriff’s deputies while using the women’s restroom, sparking outrage and a demand for accountability.
Morton, who identifies as masculine-presenting or a “stud,” recounted the humiliating encounter that occurred when a store employee erroneously assumed she was a transgender woman. The saga began innocuously enough: Morton had entered the restroom with her ex-girlfriend, who was kindly handing her a tampon— an act of friendship that, unfortunately, soon spiraled into something far more troubling. In an exclusive interview with The Advocate, Morton detailed her shock when the two deputies barged in, shining flashlights into the restroom stall.

“You have to get out of here. You have to come out. We need to talk to you.” Imagine trying to pee in peace, only to have the police storm in like it’s an episode of Cops: Restroom Edition.
“I’m still using the restroom. I’m sitting down, I’m peeing. What is the issue?,” Morton incredulously told the deputies as she sat there.
Now, while most people hope for a streamlined bathroom experience, Morton was treated more like a suspect than a bathroom user. The deputies apparently needed to crack the case of “Who Looks Like a Man in the Ladies’ Room,” a particularly absurd mystery, if you ask us."

That’s just four but I could go on and on. So let’s stop pretending trans women are attacking us left, right and centre in toilets. They aren’t. Men are

They're the same thing.

@Helpmelosemymind Please can you give me the police figures for the ‘much more regular’ occurrence of women not being feminine? I can then try and map them with the police figures for assaults and rapes on girls and women. Then we can come up with a ratio and see if it’s worth the inconvenience?

The GNC woman in question identifies as masculine, knows they present as masculine, and a store worker thought they were male and called the police.
What is the big deal here? If a woman deliberately presents as masculine, it seems ridiculous to complain when people mistake her for a male.
This isn't about people policing GNC women-it's about someone believing a male was in the female toilets and the police responding to that. As for the police waiting until she came out instead- that wouldn't be much help if it was indeed a male raping a woman in there

Quite.

@TinselAngel

You know fine well what I mean. It isn’t men dressed as women who are raping women in toilets in the overwhelming majority of cases. It’s men wearing mens clothes, living life as men. The clothing is irrelevant so focusing on that doesn’t keep women safe.

Trans women are men. The only difference is that they're men who call themselves women.

So the solution is for us to not complain about the men who are doing it overtly, just about any that might be hiding?

Yes 'cis' men attack women. The difference is if an obvious male spotted in toilets or other female spaces, women can raise the alarm and challenge them. We can't challenge trans identified males. And with Self-ID we're at a point now where we can't even challenge 'cis' males because trans identified men don't even have to attempt to pass as women.
Men will always attack women but we don't need to make it any easier for them

Sure…and those men aren’t the ones raping women in toilets. It’s the men who are dressed as men. So obsessing over a tiny, tiny minority of men who wear women’s clothing and almost never attack women is a red herring, a waste of time.

And you don't need to tag me, I'm on the thread.

I’m not sitting beside you watching you be on the thread…

a tiny, tiny minority of men who wear women’s clothing and almost never attack women

So they do attack women sometimes? In that case I'd rather they stay out of the ladies with the other men, please.

None of these men should be in women's spaces. Doesn't matter how they're dressed or what they call themselves.

@Beekeepingmum she should grow her hair and wear a bit of makeup?
I never wear makeup and even when I had a skinhead nobody mistook me for a man?
Of course she should look however she wants. I don't think the cops did anything wrong though.

But this is the point…men attack women by surprise when they are alone in the toilets. That’s the case whether they are men dressed as men or men dressed as women. So there is no “challenging them” and no “raising the alarm”. A trans woman doesn’t stroll into a busy women toilet block and attack a woman because no one called them out for being male. They attack women because they haven’t been perceived and there was no one else around to witness them. Banning trans women from women’s toilets does not stop men from entering and attacking women, whether that’s dressed as men or dressed as women. They are getting away with it in male clothing. They don’t need women’s clothing to achieve that aim.

Women also attack women a tiny, tiny minority of the time.

I don’t even disagree with you that trans women shouldn’t use women’s bathrooms. I just think the level of outrage about it is ludicrous, disproportionate and does absolutely nothing to keep women and girls safe. Nothing. So let’s have conversations about how to ACTUALLY keep us safe.

That is not true. I have a friend who has alopecia, and she's been asked by women when she transitioned. They assume she is a transwoman. My friend does not live in the UK but in a country where people are less private and very blunt.

Recently, I watched a performance with my adult daughter and my husband and neither of them realised that one of the performers was a transwoman until the performer started to speak. I was very surprised by that, because I noticed immediately.

I am very sorry for the Black woman to whom this happened. It must have been terrifying. However, I am surprised she never considered that "identifying as masculine-presenting" might result in being taken for a man.

No. The point is that men attack women when they have lowered their guard - because they are friends, relatives (most attackers are people known to their victims)… the MO is to lull the victim into a sense of security, to leave themselves vulnerable… that is what happens when men claim to be women and enter our spaces. Society has become complicit in facilitating men, for facilitating the grooming of women to acquiesce to their presence in their safe spaces.

My god these arguments never change do they?

Are we really back at men don't need to dress up to attack women so we should let the ones who DO dress up have easy access?

I can not emphasize this post enough for men attacking women (however they identify).

There are assaults on women and girls every day.

The perpetrators won’t want to get caught so they will attack somewhere that’s private.

The new style ‘gender-neutral’ toilets are visually and acoustically private cubicles. Because when people are worried about toilets becoming mixed sex the first thing that happens is they design them to be completely private.

We need single sex areas with cubicles off that have safety gaps ie. how single sex toilet blocks have been designed around the world for years. And the single sex areas need to be enforced.

& btw..while the police were bothering this poor butch lesbian who was just trying to have a piss, there will have been a woman somewhere actually being raped by a cis gendered man in a women’s toilet with no police there to help her.

But we are so overdramatic about trans women that we are hyper alert for them everywhere just waiting to attack us at any moment! So while people may say “so what, she was inconvenienced” well if people start calling the police every time a not-feminine-enough-looking women walks into a toilet, not even behaving in a menacing way then what a terrible waste of police resources that’s going to become. Meanwhile cisgendered masculine men will do what they’ve always done and just walk into our toilets and rape us anyway.

And this one is :

Women are to blame for what men do.

No, no man should be in women's single sex spaces. No matter what they think about themselves.

actually being raped by a cis gendered man

There is no such thing as a "cis gendered man". "Trans women" are just men, no less men than other men, and as such they assault and harass women (it's not just about safety) at the same rate.

And the "Men" group you are discussing, ( men with or without dresses ), include the sub-group "transwomen".

When women say no men in womens toilets or single sex spaces this includes all sub-groups including those with special feeling or special fashion choices.

If men imposing themselves on women's spaces was a criminal offence with serious penalties, and any cases of this happening were seriously pursued by the CPS, it would have such a significant deterrent effect that we wouldn't need to be as concerned about male intruders.