Am I GC?

[GCornotGCthatisthequestion]

I have been looking into the trans issue for a few months now, looking at sources from both "sides" to try and understand the issues properly and form a view. I think I have come to a position that would get me called a terf in some spaces but also falls short of the view that most on on this forum hold. I would be interested to hear if you would consider me gender critical.

I don't believe that people can change sex, however, I do think that for some people, taking hormones and having surgery to resemble the opposite sex is the right thing for them.

I don't think that women should be forced to compete against transwomen in sports, particularly when prize money is involved or in sports like boxing where the risk of injury is high. I don't think it is reasonable to expect volunteer-run events like Park Run to be able to police whether or not someone who registers as a woman is a transwomen or not. While I understand the frustrations around women being beaten by transwomen in this race I can't see how they could stop this.

I have a close friend from childhood who identifies as non-binary, takes testosterone and has had their breasts removed. While I don't understand their decision I can see with my own eyes how much happier their life is now and I believe that this was the right decision for them. I care about them deeply and I am happy that they were able to make these changes and live a happier life.

I think children who have distress about their sex should receive exploratory therapy to try and understand what they are feeling and why. I don't think they should be given puberty blockers or any kind of hormone therapy until they are adults. I do, however, think most older teens have the capacity to decide how they dress and what name they want to be referred to as.

I will generally use the pronouns that someone asks me to about them. I don't look down on or sneer at people who add pronouns to email signatures. I don't agree with companies mandating that people have it add them.

I think people should be able to ask for a female doctor for intimate medical care and it mean biologically female rather than a transwoman.

I have felt uncomfortable with some of the content on this forum. The "tranvestigation" threads that seem to target black female athletes because they don't fit European standards of what a woman is meant to be. The overlooking of terrible behaviour from people because "at least they know what a woman is".

Would you say I was GC?

I posted a link to a thread that someone started accusing a 5 foot 3 black woman of being a man.

How about men are stopped from entering women's sports, then no one would need to wonder if a woman is really a man

I don’t have any prejudice towards trans and non binary people. I don’t think that the medical transitioning of children was done in good faith, and I do believe that doctors etc who colluded in this should face prosecution. There is a famous Irish female surgeon working in America who achieved fame among gender questioning children with her “ let’s yeet the teats” posts. I struggle to reconcile that with “ first do no harm”. Glad you’re alright with it though.

"women who ask questions are all big meanie
Can you quote where I said that?

I said that it made me uncomfortable not that anyone was a big meanie.

Accusing black women of being manly is a racist trope that has been around for decades. I am a black woman who has been hurt because of it. I am allowed to feel uncomfortable when a group of women feed into that. It would seem thad you have gross misunderstanding of issues that black women face. It's really not about calling you a big meanie....

But what perhaps, they don't have, is a larger perspective into how trans ideology - in the guise of gender identity theory has only recently arrived on the scene. They are not aware of its roots in 1980/1990's post modernistic campus theories - such as 'Queer Theory'...which morphed out of both feminsim and the gay rights movement.

This is why it tends to be referred to as an 'ideology'. It is borne out of a set of ideas and theories about self realisation and self development. One rooted in certain concepts. It is conceptual...not rooted in material or biological reality.

And to add to that is has been co-opted into americanised individualistic culture; into consumerism, and into big pharma. A kind of late stage product of a particular type of western culture - but which has now been exported around the world.

Most cultures have created spaces for those that don't or can't quite conform. Ladyboys in in Thailand/Cambodia etc; 'Two spirit' people in native american cultures etc 'Hijra; in Indian cultures ( all native ways of dealing with homosexuality)......but it is only now that we are expected to accept that males are literally females and we all have to pretend we believe it.

Is this directed at me? Can you quote where I've suggested that I'm OK with surgeons shouting "let's yeet the teats"?

maybe people who have colluded in those processes should face criminal proceedings
I don't agree with this. I think most people are trying to do the right thing. They just have a different opinion on what the right thing is.

Yes, it was directed at you. I was responding to your above response.

‘I have read it. I guess my feeling on it is that if a 15 year old girl feels more comfortable in boys clothes then she should be allowed to wear them rather than being forced into frilly dresses. And loads of people are known by something other than their legal name.’

You’re using some hefty stereotypes there ‘boys clothes’ and ‘frilly dresses’, is that what marks the difference between men and women to you? By wearing a frilly dress you’re a girl? Changing your name doesn’t change your sex does it?

I think you realise and accept the biological reality of this situation but I think you still feel we should ‘be kind’, and in my view that has contributed to the mess we’re in now. A lot of women started off trying to be kind, until we realised just how ‘kind’ we were expected to be ultimately, and that’s probably why a lot of us are at the no tolerance stage.

I have enormous sympathy for people with genuine body dysmorphia, but they need therapy, not medical intervention. People can’t change sex, no one is born in the wrong body.

Can you not se how this sort of scenario has arisen out of the culture and general atmosphere that has created by trans ideology?

People have always understood that some women are quite masculine and some men are quite feminine - but only now has this sort of madness and schizophrenia arisen.

It's impossible to tell whether the 'is this 5'3" woman a man?' question was genuine or just an attempt to get people agree that maybe she was to make the board look like a bunch of nutters. It didn't succeed if so. Far too long ago to really know the motivation

Be there for your friend when the euphoria wears off.

I was referred to as being " quite masculine" when I went for a skin treatment quite recently.......it happens. I think it was because I have a strong jawline and short hair..but was in a clinic that tends to be frequented by long haired or overtly 'feminine' presenting women seeking beauty treatments.

You’re using some hefty stereotypes there ‘boys clothes’ and ‘frilly dresses’, is that what marks the difference between men and women to you? By wearing a frilly dress you’re a girl? Changing your name doesn’t change your sex does it?

No of course not. I am not suggesting that it does.

I guess my feeling on it is that if a 15 year old girl feels more comfortable in boys clothes then she should be allowed to wear them rather than being forced into frilly dresses.

I don't think anyone thinks girls should be forced into wearing dresses do they? It's only stereotyping that makes people think girls should wear dresses. I don't think anyone really cares what teenagers (or anyone else for that matter) wears - why would a female wearing jeans and a t shirt be declared trans/non binary?

I see. When the person was talking about "colluding in these processes" I was thinking about parents who go along with a child's wishes not gleeful surgeons. I don't think everyone who could be described as colluding is the same.

I think you are GC but there are nuances in the debate you haven't recognised yet, which is understandable to someone new to it.

For me the biggest difference is that I think there are differences in argument at an individual, emotional level and a population level and you currently have not separated them.

For example, in our current climate someone might feel better altering their body to get out of feeling sexualised. I can see it would give relief and would not argue with them about wanting to do it. However, at a population level I would fight this trend, I would argue that it's the sexualisation that needs to change, that women shouldn't be feeling it's their bodies that need to change but societies attitudes to female bodies. I'd desperately want to reduce the number of women who hated their breasts that much.

Similarly, Im not going to fight with a troubled teen about pronouns. I will however fight with the wider concept that we should allow language to be controlled, that we need to play along always and that not going along with calling someone Xi or It is an act of hate.

It's like religion to me. I can see people individually get great comfort from their faith but I don't think it should be forced on anyone else, that we can't criticise the consequences of religions or that we tell religious people that non believers hate them, just because they disagree.

The fact your friend gets comfort from her faith at the moment, doesn't make it a good thing in every way that you can't have concerns about more widely.

It might well have been a troll but there were a fair few replies joining in. I only posted it because I was asked to repeatedly. Apparently not doing so would prove bad faith or something.

For me the biggest difference is that I think there are differences in argument at an individual, emotional level and a population level and you currently have not separated them.

I can see what you mean. Although I would argue that individuals are impacted by population level issues so they aren't completely separate.

I genuinely don't think my friend chose to go down the surgery purely because of society sexualising women's bodies, although I can see that some people might and it could have contributed.

I don't like it when people try to work out if athletes in the women's category are male. There are enough that we know are male to be going on with. Some people prefer sex realist to gender critical. The belief that people can't change sex and saying they can infringes people's (especially women's rights) is held across the political spectrum so you can be gender critical and disagree with things other gender critical people think.

if a 15 year old girl feels more comfortable in boys clothes then she should be allowed to wear them rather than being forced into frilly dresses

I doubt many women here are advocating for 15 year old girls to be "forced into frilly dresses". What are "boy's clothes"? Most girls wear trousers and baggy tops if they want to.

You said in your OP:

I have felt uncomfortable with some of the content on this forum. The "tranvestigation" threads that seem to target black female athletes because they don't fit European standards of what a woman is meant to be.

When asked for examples, you posted a single example of a thread started by someone who I don't think is a regular poster here (I don't recognise the username). The other posts agreeing with that poster also seem to have mainly been made by people who are not regular posters here.

Most of the regular posters on that thread were saying "don't be ridiculous, she's obviously female" or words to that effect. Or saying that it's the fault of the sports organisations for allowing males with DSDs and trans-identified males to compete in women's sports which has caused the speculation.

Have you read the Cass report? It is quite clear that social transitioning is not a neutral act.

I have read it. I guess my feeling on it is that if a 15 year old girl feels more comfortable in boys clothes then she should be allowed to wear them rather than being forced into frilly dresses. And loads of people are known by something other than their legal name.

I'm sure you know really that that isn't what social transition means. But just in case you don't, social transition means that the girl pretends she has changed sex and everyone else is expected to pretend to believe that she has changed sex.

I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make here. Are you saying that I'm not allowed to feel uncomfortable? That I should just ignore my discomfort at a subtle form of racism that I have experienced myself?

I was asked for an example repeatedly and spent quite a long time trawling through to find one. I wouldn't know who is and isn't a regular poster here.

I know, that's why I was clarifying what I meant. I didn't mention social transition on my op. The poster I was responding to did.

Then it's not clear why you talked about stereotypes in reply to a post about social transitioning. The implication was that you thought they were the same thing.

I completely agree that thread was unacceptable op and I hope another one like that isn't posted ever. However, this is an open forum and anyone can start a thread. Sometimes there are profound disagreements - there were certainly some on that thread. All I can say is your voice is valuable and your opinions valid.

Of course you're allowed to feel however you feel. No, you shouldn't ignore your discomfort in response to something you perceive as racism.

I'll repeat again what you said in your OP.

I have felt uncomfortable with some of the content on this forum. The "tranvestigation" threads that seem to target black female athletes because they don't fit European standards of what a woman is meant to be.

The implication was that there were a lot of threads which fit this description, but now you say you spent a long time looking and could only find one. As someone who doesn't read or post here regularly you didn't know if this was started by a regular poster or someone who might be a troll. This board is regularly targeted by such trolls who post threads like this one in the hope of making this board look racist or homophobic or fascist. If that's the only thread you could find to fit your description I think you should ignore it. If you do an advanced search of some of the people who disagreed with the OP you'll find that many of them are regular posters here. If you do the same with the OP and those agreeing with them you'll find the opposite.