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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

In quite the turnaround Scottish Labour say the support Sandie Peggie, and would not support the GRR bill "knowing what they know now"!

340 replies

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/02/2025 14:51

x.com/holyroodsources/status/1891851822278590711?s=46&t=AjtjSItRj-kgZwRzL-pdyQ

FFS. What is different now? It's not as if they weren't told over and over again what the consequences would be. 🙄

OP posts:
SionnachRuadh · 18/02/2025 16:58

In his best Captain Renault voice, Anas Sarwar is shocked, shocked, to discover that dodgy men take advantage of loopholes to access women's spaces.

I'll take it, but I'd still like to have a few moments with Anas to ask him what the actual fuck he was thinking.

Skyellaskerry · 18/02/2025 17:01

NotAComputerPerson · 18/02/2025 16:57

So….what are the things that Scottish Labour didn’t know back then that they’ve realised now?

What they did know back then…

…that allowing anyone to “self ID” as a member of the opposite sex also allows absolutely anyone to self-ID into opposite sex toilets and changing rooms.

What they apparently didn’t realise back then….

…that women are sick of being instructed to get their tits out for the lads

…that women are 50% of the electorate

…that everyone understands how much crap nurses have to deal with in the workplace, and their sympathy is with the nurses, not with 6ft 28yo married men demanding workplace access to nurses in their underwear

And Labour whipped their MSPs on the vote!

Washinghanginginthesun · 18/02/2025 17:02

GargoylesofBeelzebub · 18/02/2025 15:13

Excellent! I thought they were going to get away with trying to block any discussion of this at Holyrood today.

They (SNP and Greens) voted against this motion (requiring a response from the Scottish government) and the presiding officer (Green list MSP but supposedly impartial) blocked selection of any and all question submitted by MSPs under topical questions, FMQs or the other question category that would have required the government to answer.

NotAComputerPerson · 18/02/2025 17:03

reesewithoutaspoon · 18/02/2025 16:23

Thousands of women told them this would happen they must have heard it, they just didn't care because meh women!
They haven't just discovered the potential consequences of the bill, they knew what it was all along, but it wouldn't impact them and their peers. They just believed it made them morally superior and progressive.
they have just noticed how angry it's made their voters.
This about turn is purely self preservation.

This.

Skyellaskerry · 18/02/2025 17:07

Has anyone heard this being reported yet? I don’t see anything on the BBC Scottish Politics yet

ErrolTheDragon · 18/02/2025 17:08

Although for some reason I keep wanting to call it a Rainbow Bridge
Why would that be I wonder?

Because one of their pet dogmas has died?

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 17:13

ErrolTheDragon · 18/02/2025 17:08

Although for some reason I keep wanting to call it a Rainbow Bridge
Why would that be I wonder?

Because one of their pet dogmas has died?

Oh, very good.

ItsCoolForCats · 18/02/2025 17:16

It's astonishing how much things have changed. I can't imagine them stating this a year ago. Progress I guess.

Hoardasurass · 18/02/2025 17:17

anyolddinosaur · 18/02/2025 15:16

Golden bridges, folks. We know it's only Trump and the threat of Farage but it's still an improvement.

To little to late, and we all know that if labour gets voted in next year (scot parliament election) they'll ditch all their promises and it'll be business as usual the same aa it is in Westminster

CorruptedCauldron · 18/02/2025 17:19

I think it’s great news - we don’t have to forgive their idiocy and refusal to listen when it mattered, but we can take the win now. I’d much rather these people reverse ferreted than doubled down. This article is worth a look:

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,we-support-sandie-peggie-and-would-vote-against-gender-reforms-scottish-labour-leaders-say

Forester1 · 18/02/2025 17:20

Good news and frustrating in equal measure given that nothing has actually changed. But also helpful to have more left wing voices taking this view as helps to negate the “siding with Trump” challenge.

RayonSunrise · 18/02/2025 17:21

We seem to have acquired a lot of people who don't remember the disdain women and feminists in particular were held in by a lot of our new "champions" on the populist right, before they realised taking an interest in us might lead to votes. ''Twas ever thus.

Welcome to politics. And take the win - we'll need to keep watching them all like hawks and writing to our MPs anyway, no matter what party they're from.

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 17:23

I'll be sending a thank you to Jackie Baillie.

https://www.parliament.scot/msps/current-and-previous-msps/jackie-baillie

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 17:27

Might have to work up to Anas Sarwar, though...

Scottish Labour's party conference in three days.

Let's get women's rights on the agenda.

x.com/ScottishLabour/status/1891759691509747878

kiterunning · 18/02/2025 17:29

Dr Upton has fucked up majorly.
If I wasn't so angry I'd be thanking him.

Datun · 18/02/2025 17:33

SionnachRuadh · 18/02/2025 16:58

In his best Captain Renault voice, Anas Sarwar is shocked, shocked, to discover that dodgy men take advantage of loopholes to access women's spaces.

I'll take it, but I'd still like to have a few moments with Anas to ask him what the actual fuck he was thinking.

And also, if they're not dodgy, women still don't want to take their clothes off in front of them

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 17:34

Whatever did happen to LGBT+ Scottish Labour?

All seems to have ground to a halt in 2023.

fromorbit · 18/02/2025 17:35

ArabellaScott · 18/02/2025 17:27

Might have to work up to Anas Sarwar, though...

Scottish Labour's party conference in three days.

Let's get women's rights on the agenda.

x.com/ScottishLabour/status/1891759691509747878

Yes it is the Scottish Labour Conference this weekend and Labour Women's Declaration already has an event and stall not for the first time. I think there are going to be a lot of people switching sides with the fallout from Upton hitting home and this announcement is going to play a part.

Yes Labour are massive hypocrites, we always call that out. However we also need to move forward. See the Unison thread for what TAs are doing to crush women's voices in the biggest union in the UK right now.

If we want to stop this stuff we need support from Labour. We need Labour to push back otherwise the Uptons win.

A bunch of people in Labour as the recent internal briefings from Labour insiders are indicating many now know gender stuff is not only pointless, but more to the point electorally disastrous.

The Scottish elections are in 2026 and Labour are doing very badly gender is one of the weapons they want to use to hammer the SNP/Greens/Lib Dems.

Also with the arrival of Labour LGB the gender wars in Labour are kicking up a huge notch see this thread for details. It is going to get worse.
https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/5276330-labour-lgb-group-launch-drama-ensues

So yes they are bunch of muppets, the history will show that, but we need to bank that win and move on to the next fight. We have to stop the witch trials.

We take back Scottish Labour - Wales has to be next!

Hoardasurass · 18/02/2025 17:35

Datun · 18/02/2025 15:37

I wonder if it's that supercilious, sneering man telling a nurse I'm a biological woman and there's nothing you can do about me being in here.

It's another Isla Bryson moment. Just another man taking advantage of women's spaces.

Fuck me, what were the chances?

I'd say it's more powerful as not everyone can picture themselves in prison being confronted by a man and others won't care as they have no/little compassion for prisoners. However everyone can see this happening at their work or as a patient in hospital especially with Dr Upton saying that he'd treat a patient who asked for a female dr.
This is a whole new ball game, dr Upton has got on a global stage with a loud speaker and said the quite part out loud

CorruptedCauldron · 18/02/2025 17:35

Some handy transcripts from today:

Tess White (North East Scotland) (Con)
Sandie Peggie, who has been a national health service nurse for 30 years, spoke up for her sex-based rights in her workplace because she did not want to share a changing facility with a biological male. However, in doing so, she is being treated as the perpetrator, not the victim.
I know that the Presiding Officer considers this case to be sub judice. Nothing I say here today will prejudice any live proceedings, because at the heart of this case are the policies of the Scottish National Party Government.
Presiding Officer, we need a ministerial statement on public sector workers and single-sex spaces. I am grateful to the Minister for Parliamentary Business for being open, despite the late notice, to considering that request.

Jackie Baillie (Dumbarton) (Lab)
The protection of single-sex spaces based on biological sex is a matter of law—it is in the Equality Act 2010. In supporting the amendment calling for a statement, I ask whether Tess White agrees with me that the Scottish Government and its agencies are not above the law.

Tess White
I thank Jackie Baillie, and I completely agree with her that the Scottish Government and its agencies are not above the law.
The situation that has arisen in NHS Fife speaks volumes about what is happening behind closed doors in Scotland’s public sector under the SNP Government. The reality is that Nicola Sturgeon’s self-identification policy has binned the rights of biologically female employees to access single-sex spaces. Taxpayers’ money is being used to cover legal costs to defend a public body’s gender policy, but there is no transparency over the cost to the public purse because the health board involved will not disclose that information. That is simply not acceptable, especially when the health service is in crisis and budgets are being squeezed.
It has been reported that the Cabinet Secretary for Health and Social Care, Neil Gray, was made aware in June last year of the situation in NHS Fife and the legal implications of it. We need clarity over Neil Gray’s involvement or lack thereof.
The public interest in the issue is huge. It has been covered extensively in the press and MSPs have been contacted by constituents with legitimate questions and concerns, and yet we have not been able to bring those questions to the chamber. Topical questions, First Minister’s questions and urgent questions that have been lodged on the issue have not been selected. Meanwhile, our colleagues in Westminster have been able to raise it. It is deeply disappointing that, once again, this Parliament cannot discharge its duties to the public because members do not have parliamentary privilege.
Women are watching today. The public has had enough of the recent abdication, obfuscation and moral cowardice from the Government, and we are only going to see more witch hunts at the public’s expense if we do not get clarity on the Scottish Government’s position. I urge members to support my amendment.

Peregrina · 18/02/2025 17:36

Dr Upton has fucked up majorly.
If I wasn't so angry I'd be thanking him.

I agree. I am also angry about the money being spent. On the other hand, if these cases weren't coming to court and going against the GI industry and downright wrong work policies, we wouldn't know about them and the harms would still continue. So perhaps it will be money well spent.

MorrisZapp · 18/02/2025 17:37

kiterunning · 18/02/2025 17:29

Dr Upton has fucked up majorly.
If I wasn't so angry I'd be thanking him.

Oh hell yes. This is the line in the sand and he honestly thought he could 'be kind' the nation into thinking he's a biological female.

Own goal to end all own goal.

MorrisZapp · 18/02/2025 17:38

RayonSunrise · 18/02/2025 17:21

We seem to have acquired a lot of people who don't remember the disdain women and feminists in particular were held in by a lot of our new "champions" on the populist right, before they realised taking an interest in us might lead to votes. ''Twas ever thus.

Welcome to politics. And take the win - we'll need to keep watching them all like hawks and writing to our MPs anyway, no matter what party they're from.

YES

WarriorN · 18/02/2025 17:40

Eh ?

<reads op again>

SerafinasGoose · 18/02/2025 17:43

I despise every last one of them.

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